USB Nervosa Thread Decrapifiers, pro interfaces, and bears oh my

Having been vinyl centric the last month or so, I read your post and thought, 'Why would he have to reboot his turntable?" Then I remembered the Auralic (headslap).

I have heard that as well, where the AES or SPDIF is better, maybe not by choice initially. Not sure if they do route USB that way, but at least Schitt does admits as much in terms of what will sound better. I think USB, like digital is asymptotic. It might get better, but its still a farily low ceiling, overall.

 

I'm just wondering if WASAPI/ASIO is still relevant in the Windows 10 world. I know that "everyone knows" DirectSound sucks but is it actually true?

I thought about this because when I got my Modi Multibit I set MusicBee to WASAPI and used it. Then today I upgraded to the latest MusicBee and it defaulted back to DirectSound. I didn't even notice till I checked the settings.

Like I know "best practive" is to use WASAPI/ASIO but in reality can anyone hear the difference?

 

Using JRiver (PC) > USB > Bifrost Multibit > Jotunheim > TH-X00 Purpleheart. FWIW, when comparing WASAPI to Directsound, WASAPI has a blacker background, clearer separation between sounds, more sub-bass definition and mids tonally better balanced (think mids might be to shallow in Directsound). However, this is so subtle that I would not be able to pick this difference from casual listening sessions.

 

I'm interested to know what makes the pro interface SPDIF / AES cards (such as the Lynx E22 and RME 9632) better suited as a digital source compared to a consumer card (such as the Asus Xonar Essence STX II or Elfidelity AXF-8). Is it superior power filtering and / or reduced jitter? Or just that they support AES?

The jitter performance for RME's SteadyClock technology does not seem that impressive me, the figures quoted are in the nanosecond range: http://www.rme-audio.de/en/support/techinfo/steadyclock.php . For an audiophile application would not figures in the picosecond range be expected? What am I missing / failing to understand?

 

There are a couple of factors ... first, the consumer cards generally have a lot more going on (things like headphone amplifiers, multi-channel decoders, effects processors/DSP) than the professional cards. Assuming that additional circuitry is powered up all the time (which it almost always is), that's going to add to the noise profile of the board itself. And, second, this is compounded by the absence of an isolating transformer on the COAX S/PDIF connection (can't say that's the case for ALL consumer cards with an S/PDIF output, but it has been on those I've actually seen up close).

With the pro-type cards, those output transformers will be present and there's less going on on the board to generate internal noise in the first place.

The presence of balanced AES connections has more to do with enabling long runs of cable and keeping the signal on it clean than anything else. Though it seems to help from a quality perspective with many DACs.

Native clocking on boards of this type, for pro-use, isn't a big factor since most professional use-cases will allow the incorporation of an external clock anyway, and if you're concerned about such things that's how you address it.

 

Thanks for the informative answer Torq. I hadn't considered the absence of an isolating transformer on the S/PDIF of consumer audio cards.

Would the native clocking of a pro board (without external clock), such as the RME, be optimal for audiophile applications? e.g. direct connection from the card to a DAC such as the Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil?

I'm currently using an Elfidelity AXF-8 and was using the Asus Xonar Essence STX II previously, both have TCXO's. I am considering the RME card because I am curious to compare it to the Elfidelity. Unfortunately, I've sold the Xonar, but I would put it equal to the Elfidelity. I am / was using TOSLink out of both, the Elfideliy doesn't have COAX S/PDIF output (only TOSLink). If I remember correctly, the TOSLink sounded a tiny bit clearer than the COAX out of the Xonar.

Would it be correct to suppose that having as low a jitter S/PDIF signal as possible would lower the workload on the Schiit Adapticlock and thus result in improved sound?

 

I'd be surprised if they was any audible difference into either Gungnir MB or Yggdrasil. Their actual jitter performance is going to be driven by the accuracy of their internal oscillators. If you're not seeing the "Clock Mode LED" (aka "Buy Better Gear") light illuminate then you should be getting the best jitter performance those devices are capable of regardless of source.

This will be, obviously, fully isolated. How good the emitter on the card is, and how prone to time-delayed internal reflections your TOSLINK cable is, I don't know. So it could easily sound better than a non-isolated COAX feed coming from an electrically noisy input. Or it could be naff.

Not necessarily.

First, the often-stated notion that some part of a device is "working harder" in cases like this isn't necessarily true. Even when it is, in any given case, it still doesn't necessarily follow that a more "accurate" clock input means LESS "work" on the part of the re-clocker (though a better source clock should give better results if the DAC does NOT perform re-clocking). That's going to depend on the relative difference in accuracy and drift between the source clock and the re-clocker's.

 

That was most intriguing and helpful, thanks.

From your explanation, my understanding is that the Schiit adapticlock makes the accuracy of the source clock less critical. Therefore I won't worry too much about the source I may give the RME card a try if I see one cheap.

 

So i just received my Intona industrial i was initially skeptical how much it can improve my Pulse fi DAC, but i must say the improvements where large.
Though it probably does not help that i run a high powered gaming PC to upsample with HQplayer to bypass filter/modulators in Sabre DAC..
I think my next purchase is gonna be a low powered Intel NUC to setup as a network streamer as i have a spare LPS.

 

hi so just some questions I have the Yggdrasil so was interested in switching out from usb

1)which card should I get lynx e22 or the aes16e?
2) what other stuff would I need to make it work with my windows PC (like cables and stuff)

thats about it i've alot of the pages and understand its better than USB just want that cleared up if possible thanks

 

1) E22 has Analog I/O and supports S/PDIF whereas AES16e is only AES/EBU (irrelevant for Yggdrasil, get whichever you can get a better deal on)
http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_compare.asp
2) You'll need a breakout cable which isn't included with the card, CBL-AES1604 for AES16e and http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=33 for E22

 

alright sounds good so for the lynx e22 its the first cable in the list right? CBL -L22 Audio your talking about the first cable (sorry just making sure)


and also AES is the better output am assuming then for the Yggdrasil?

 

Yep it's the audio cable, not the sync one. Please double check if the E22 comes with the cable or not, since I'm certain the AES16e does not but I'm not sure about the E22. And yes, AES/EBU input is preferred for the Yggdrasil over the others, at least that's the gist I've gotten from owners.

 

This has no doubt been asked somewhere here in these 50 pages but what is so great about the Yggdrasil?

 

Its sound

 

Right.
With the boldness of the first post I assumed it was something more, well, scientific.

 

If graphs and charts are more your flavor, @atomicbob has got you covered: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-measurements.413/

Otherwise, it's hearing it for yourself that really matters, and from the short demo I had at the Coronado meet, it certainly makes a statement.

 

You've been pointed in this direction on Head-Fi already...by @baldr no less. Sounds like you have a good couple leads.

 

Yes, I saw the measurements.
The lack of ringing is impressive and the jitter very good. The noise floor is good judging from the -90db sinewave, cant really tell when it comes to the noise floor in other measurements as it depends on the FFT.

Distortion is far higher than most other totl high end dacs.
The R2R switching point at amplitude of 0 is subjectively bad, though low level.

In the measurements what am I missing?