Used Deals Thread

Guys this was obviously run through Ai, after the world "duct tape" the line is mainly used by ai that is a big tell. Increase shipping cost = I'm taking more of your money. I would steer clear of this.

 

Unfortunately when you willingly buy/sell things online, you immediately become beholden to the trauma scammers have left in their wake... it's a package deal. As a seller, even if your intentions are good, your behavior is all people have to go by, so if it starts looking like a duck and quacking like a duck, no one can be blamed for believing it is a duck until the duck decides to take off its costume and show people it's not a duck. It's not fair, but whoever said life was fair? I got a bridge to sell you.

I recently tried to sell some furniture on facebook marketplace (having never done so before). Out of dozens of replies, 95% were scammers. And sometimes legit people would behave like scammers without even realizing it, simply because scammers have learned ways to get you to empathize with them. So normal people would get lumped in with them. That is how scammers scam... by getting you to trust them. "Oh he's just probably some kindly old grandpa who's never done this before" it literally in the scammer playbook.

It is a financial minefield out there now more than ever and while incendiary language may seem over the top, it's really not. It is a battle of psychology, and the trust scammers continue to mine from unsuspecting users sometimes has to be counterbalanced with extreme language even if it means innocent people get labeled. Because it makes people more cautious, not less. And as a result scammer tactics become more ineffective and people get to keep their money. As I said, this is the consequence of buying and selling online now and it requires people to understand the marketplace in order to keep from being misidentified. It's honestly not a buyer's problem, they are just protecting themselves and others. The burden becomes the seller's in this era of scammer infestation.

Yes, psychology is how scammers penetrate people's bank accounts. Just look at the internal pity party that's happened here over this, scammers love it because it emboldens them.

If anyone is bothered by the language, just ignore it and use extreme caution.

 

I've noticed quite a few people ask specifically for PP F&F in their listings, including ones with perfect feedback. I prefer the "net to me" that people here use. I finally bit the bullet and bought something from one of the listings, but I asked specifically for G&S, plus signature confirmation. The guy replied with the total for G&S and the confirmation, but I would have cut off contact if he said otherwise. Item arrived two days later, professionally packed. I think he was just happy I didn't try to haggle.

But I don't get the F&F in the listings thing.

 

I've talked to some folks out there before that started asking for paypal f&f because the tax reporting situation with paypal changed and they don't want to send money as g&s because it contributes towards that, but for this example yeah that does sound strange

 

When I read that reply sent to @rhythmdevils about half way through I thought the same thing - it has an AI vibe. It's too bad buying/selling online is such that "vibes" is all we have to go on...

 

The guy I got Elrog ER300B’s from on HF was pretty obnoxious about me insisting on G&S, but he made good on them with fast shipping. I guess I get it when trying to do the math on how much you’ll receive net with exchange rates (this guy was in Romania and shipping to me DHL), but he was still being a baby even after I explained how I didn’t want to get stiffed on a high value item from a selling venue that has a strong recent history of scams.

 

G&S puts the risk on the Seller. F&F puts the risk on the Buyer. Why wouldn't a seller ask for F&F? The loss of a sale to the person requiring G&S outweighs the risks of being scammed by them. There are other buyers in the market who will pay F&F. If not, the Seller can change the listing later.

The legitimate seller is going to send the package, the buyer is going to get it. The legitimate seller would make good if there's a problem, so why should anyone give PP money? (Note "But I will pay the fee" means nothing: A scamming Buyer gets that money back.)

Plus, the seller has heard PP is going to report them to the IRS. And PP wont release their money for weeks since they don't have a business account and don't sell very often.

"But I don't know that the Seller is a legitimate seller!" Then buy from someone else who will accept PP G&S.

Note that all of the above is in the spirit of furthering the conversation. I don't personally advocate all these viewpoints and I understand the frustration of people wanting to be protected. But I also buy and sell a lot of gear, and I get many requests that demonstrate a true lack of understanding or consideration for the person on the other side of the deal.

Oh, and yeah, that email looks like a scam.

 

The first person to lose something of value in an online transaction is the buyer, since they send money before the item is shipped. That's why such a big deal is placed on G&S. The only guarantee in a transaction once it has happened is that the buyer loses money and the seller gains money (and PP does not always hang onto funds, it depends on the history of the account). So the scales are tipped heavily in the buyer's favor with PP... and for good reason.

The seller did not have to sell their item online. There are local selling options such as craigslist or they can specify "local pickup only" in a different listing. They don't have to deal with PP if they don't want. But by selling via PP they are choosing to initiate a sale by putting their item up, so the burden is going be more on them, since they are the ones immediately benefitting. Even if it's a legit sale and the item ships, it could be damaged in transit... meaning the buyer has lost money AND has nothing of value to show for it. Burden = seller.

But yes, the seller has the right to refuse anything, but it's dumb for them to be angry or weird about G&S given the above points.

 

@ColtMrFire

Your first paragraph essentially says "The buyer is taking a risk sending money...So PP G&S favors the seller". You left off "at a cost" but yep, agreed.

Your second paragraph essentially starts "The seller doesn't has to accept the risk of using PP G&S, they can sell offline or not use PP G&S." Yep, agreed.

You go on "by selling via PP they are choosing to initiate a sale...so the burden is going be more on them, since they are the ones immediately benefitting".

I don't follow that. It reads like you're saying the method of payment dictates the terms of the deal. It's the other way around: The terms of the deal dictate the method of payment (PP G&S, PP F&F, cash, whatever), who delivers first ($$ or goods), and who bears what risks \ burdens. Buyer and Seller have to agree to all these things or the deal doesn't take place. (They may have different understandings of the terms but that's for a another conversation). In short, PP doesn't determine who the burden is on; the Buyer and Seller do.

I totally get an argument that the burden (risk) should be on the seller in an internet transaction since $$ is sent first. But many sellers after getting scammed a time or two by G&S have the same fears as buyers now. So they say "I wont accept that burden anymore, if you want to pay me by PP its F&F only."

Your last statement is "Even if it's a legit sale and the item ships, it could be damaged in transit... meaning the buyer has lost money AND has nothing of value to show for it. Burden = seller." Agreed to that. Another reason to only do deals via G&S.

 

Because they are neither friend nor family. From a common sense perspective, G&S is the correct categorization. And the online marketplaces do very little to protect buyers that don't use G&S. Head-Fi literally states: "Do not offer, request, or send money via unprotected methods like PayPal Friends & Family" at the top of the classified section. I also abhor both USA Audiomart and Audiogon for listings and they look like landmine sites for potential buyers. eBay is far more fleshed out to deal with potential grievances.

Important edit: I don't disregard that buyers can have a tendency to be complete ass-hats. I'm sitting on a bit of gear and other stuff (gaming mostly) that I'd rather just keep around than deal with hagglers and potential scammers. The farthest I go as a buyer is "what is your best price?" if I think something can come down, but I've literally had people show up (FB marketplace) after a price is agreed to and either "not have enough cash" or try to talk the price down farther.

 

PayPal and eBay (same outfit, basically) are both known to be buyer friendly, meaning the benefits are mostly tilted toward buyers. I just view it as the cost of doing business re: selling second hand gear. Anecdotally have never had an issue, but I do know that PayPal have tried to address seller concerns with G&S abuse by being far more liberal at flagging users for abuse of G&S, even if the only infraction is filing too many claims within a certain period, regardless of merit.

 

I'm talking about sellers bitching about buyers asking for G&S, presumably because of some IRS thing or having to pay a fee or whatever... or in the case of scammers, obvious reasons.

What I'm saying is they've created the burden for themselves by agreeing to use paypal for the sale, because they offer buyer protection, which is necessary and obviously buyers are going to want protection. Bitching about it is stupid because they would want it too if the positions were reversed.

 

It seems 'cash app' is becoming popular- does it offer consumer (purchaser) protections?

Years ago my daughters long time tutor (educator) decided to stop taking checks and demanded I use Venmo. I explained that it was a Chinese app (since bought I understand) that offered no protection to user, thus we could not use it. Due to her limitations/ignorance she really could not process my point of view, so she took it personally (i.e. I was somehow rejecting or judging her) and we had to terminate our relationship. $money$ being the root of evil and all that...

 

@GoldfishX , 100% agree with every statement in your post. PP G&S favors the Buyer / puts more risk on the Seller for the reasons @ColtMrFire outlined above. Its very reasonable for a buyer to demand its use and for a web forum concerned about its own reputation to suggest / demand its use when PP is the payment method.

I actually like the wild-west nature of Audiomart, especially that it immediatley puts the parties in contact rather than a platform making you use their system ( making sure they get their cut ).

FB seems to be the worst. AI responses to every ad in seconds after you post, then lowball offers from flippers within hours. Unfortunately its the 'best' place to get an audience outside of ebay and niche markets these days.

 

100% on Sellers bitching about buyers asking for G&S, though Ive never experienced that. If seller posts 'PP F&F only' though, and holds to it if asked, I wouldnt consider it bitching. But I dont think thats what you mean.

In the end I always want both parties happy with terms or its not worth doing the sale. Too many head aches, not worth short term gain. Im mostly concerned with the freaking AI email fraud these days.

 

PS Audio Direcstream mkii and
PerfectWave SACD Transport for 8k

basically 2 for 1 deal both are worth around 8k

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...i2s-cable-combo-one-of-the-fine-da-converters

 

Maybe not a deal but an interesting item, an old vintage accuphase ladder dac came up for sale, the Accuphase DC81L. I was almost tempted to pick it up out of curiosity, but it's just old enough where I think I'm too wary of aging parts.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...1l-dac-discrete-r2r-ladder-8250-msrp-in-1989/

 

I'd be curious, definitely after they say it is on par with a Lampizator TRP. Can a near 8K vintage dac compare with a near 8K modern dac? Yeah that would be a nice shootout comparison.

 

https://tmraudio.com/fresh-arrivals...a-converter-analog-power-base-volume-control/

Pretty sure this is the same MSB Analog that was on sale on USA Audiomart for the longest time. The seller only had 1 feedback (as a buyer). Looks more appealing as a Music Room used item, with buy-now-pay-later option.

 

Grado RS1X for $300

Local pickup in LA

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...s-only-local-pickup-only-los-angelesoc-areas/