Vintage DACs

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Luckbad, Apr 26, 2016.

  1. murray

    murray Friend

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    There is no absolute truth with polarity. In one recording some tracks/instruments may be opposite in polarity to others. Sometimes deliberately, often unintentionally. The only way to be sure be to compare the waveform to a master reference recording, or isolating and analysing separate instruments that make the most difference, e.g. Drum hits, etc. Polarity inversions can occur all through the audio chain from microphone to speaker. Basically, an even number of inversions will cancel out.
     
  2. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Has anyone heard both the Theta Gen V and Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 or SFD-2? Trying to decide which to nab and I can really only afford to get one.

    I've been trying to limit myself to $1000 for a vintage DAC.

    @Greed and @rikkitik, have you owned both?

    I'd be curious how each sounds.
     
  3. Gravity

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    Damn, I'd love to hear a Theta DAC. Anyone know if they are available in Europe?
     
  4. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    They haven't been made for years, so you'll have to find one used. I've seen some for sale out there in the past.
     
  5. Gravity

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    Time to go hunting.
     
  6. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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  7. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Actually dug up his Changstar reviews last night. I might actually prefer the Sonic Frontiers. At the asking prices, it'is the smarter choice to try in any case.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    SFD1 is bassiest/warmest. I'd recommend the SE+ upgrade for it. SFD2 is more resolving and more neutral. The Gen V is the most precise sounding and detailed of the bunch with still a bit of warmth. The problem with the Gen V is that they are so old and unsupported. Pcx still supports the SF DACs.
     
  9. Enigmatic

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    Coincidentally I am staring at a SFD1 at about 550USD, the seller only does local pickup here though. Don't think I could make it for the SE+ upgrade... Hmm.
     
  10. Greed

    Greed Friend

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    Marv is spot on, I share similar impressions. I would add that the SFD-2 should only be considered if you are going to be using it balanced out. The SE out is a large step down imo. If you plan to use the SE out, just get a SFD-1. Also, tube rolling seemed to tighten up the sound of the SF DACs. Get a pair of Amperex 6922 or 7308's and you are good to go.

    Gen V leans more towards the Schiit DAC sound. You lose a bit of resolution and speed compared to the Gungnir Multibit but I personally find the extra warmth to be more natural sounding. It also is the hardest hitting DAC I've heard, a nice punchy sound - super addicting. I agree, getting them serviced is a royal PITA but there are a few experienced people willing to tackle the job.
     
  11. Mr.Sneis

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    I was going to say the sfd2 mkii is really nice, one of the best I've heard. It is more neutral than Marv described the sfd1. It paired fantastic with my dynamic rig when I had it but not so well with stax, very weird! Also it is a class of dac with no real off switch....

    I learned this not too long ago but many of the assemblage dacs were built not by diy builders by pcx/sf, if you can, watch out for the solder work... little iffy in some departments.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Stock SFD1 I felt was superior than Master 7 even with the i2s OR5 converter with HDMI mod. Master 7 with i2s maybe a teeny bit more resolving, but SFD1 stage was more open and deeper with better dynamics, denser timbres, and more cohesive spectrum. Basically M7 went on sale one day after I got the SFD1.
     
  13. Greed

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    Oh yea, I wanted to mention even though PCX does support the older Sonic Frontiers stuff don't discount the fees involved in repairing if needed. They charge quite a bit for repairs and upgrade packages. The SE+ upgrades are north of $500, I believe the SFD-2 MK II SE+ package is $1200 or so. So PCX isn't cheap by any means.

    There's nothing like doing your own solder work. (if you are experienced ofc)
     
  14. Enigmatic

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    [​IMG]


    But I am feeling ill right now so no listening for me............
     
  15. Enigmatic

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    Had 5 minutes on the SFD-1 MKII this morning before I went to work. Jot down some quick notes (bear in mind my ears and nose are still blocked from my cold).
    Marantz CD6004 coax out > SFD-1 MKII > Asgard 2 > HE-560

    > Holy smokes that imaging!
    > Everything sounds so right.
    > Electronic drum is in my face.
    > Feels a bit shouty. Might just be my blocked ears as I turned up the volume a bit. Or the recording. Ah we will know later...

    Don't want to jump the gun with any more than the short notes I've written so far.


    Note to myself over the coming weeks/months:
    1. Check the innards of the unit. Capacitor condition? Roll tubes?
    2. Get a Mutec. You are piss poor so an MC1.2 will do.
    3. AES/EBU cable (ADD: What fartery am I talking about. A stock unit comes with opt tos/st and coax only. Hmm.)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  16. bixby

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    Colds can change everything. I speak from experience. Do not judge until you are well. Hope you get better soon
     
  17. IceUul

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    I got some Sonic Frontiers stuff also for myself few weeks ago, SF SFT-1 cd-transport and SF SFD-1 mk2 DAC, i am not sure these are SE+ versions or not, since previous owner (my friend's friend) did not know much about them. I opened the DAC case, there was some PCX parts inside the DAC.

    So far i do not have proper connection to computer (using simple soundcard with toslink). Anyway... compared to Yggdrasil, this DAC is real deal...

    First impressions:
    6922 Russian stock tubes, toslink connection, Yggdrasil running from USB (1 week warmed up) ... tried with HD800 (modified) and HD800 stock and also EC 2A3 and DNA Stratus amps...

    - SFD-1 mk2 has better imaging, wider soundstage, more euphony, warmer. Takes away the stock HD800 harshness.
    - Yggdrasil, much more resolving (more info from music), music is much more clear and more neutral.

    Anyway, both seems good DAC's compared to any other non-R2R dac's that i have heard... they are quite different, worth to get one for yourself next to Yggdrasil/Gungnir Multibit if you sometimes prefer warm and euphony.

    One more thing, if anybody here, who has SFD-1 mk2 SE+, can send inside photos for me, i would be very happy!
     
  18. Enigmatic

    Enigmatic Friend

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    Thanks bixby - It usually takes around a week before I get any decent use of my nose and ears after a cold.
    Oh well.


    Just popped off the top casing. It's already using Phillips JAN 6922 (USA, green label), so don't think I will be spending too much time and money on tubes (might try some Amperex but that's about it). Good thing, at this rate I should then be comfortable with getting the Mutec by end of the month.
     
  19. rikkitik

    rikkitik New

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    Yes, I have had the M7, SFD1 and 2 (both were mkII's), and Gen Va, all at the same time.....hey, I worked a ton of OT last year -lol.
    My impressions follow those posted pretty closely. The M7 purchase precipitated the "search". It was substantially more detailed than the Monarchy I was using, but very irritating in my system. Other than a VTL pre I tried a few years back, the M7 almost set a record for "hell no" in my system. No combination of NOS/OS/DSP/filters would bail it out. They would make it more "tolerable", but I don't listen to "tolerable".
    I actually aquired 2 SFD1's, keeping 1 as a backup to the Gen Va.
    Oh, and I haven't heard Schiit......
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
  20. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Just got this bad boy in from @rikkitik!

    20160518_114949.jpg

    The Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 MKII lives up to the hype. It's certainly better than my MHDT Labs Atlantis stock. Not sure yet about vs. the Atlantis+ (modded).

    It looks like the TOSLINK was replaced with AES (which is awesome!). I'm not sure if anything internally was changed.

    Looks ridiculous with a Project Horizon III on top of it, but it's coming home with my tonight after work to be paired with an ampsandsound Mogwai.
     

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