Vintage DACs

I got my hands on an old Monarchy Audio Model 22 (original version before A/B/C) that uses PCM63P-K chips.

It wasn't playing out of one channel when I received it, but I was able to fix that by soldering the left RCA output positive wire back into place.

It clips/distorts a bit if I feed it a full level signal, but sounds pretty good if I drop the dB by ~5-10. This only happens in the right channel and, when it distorts, it almost sounds like it's inverting phase briefly.

EDIT: Maybe it just needed to be used a bit? It's no longer clipping even with full level signals for me.

EDIT #2: Okay, I have this figured out. The Sunrise couldn't handle the hot output of the Model 22. It's considerably higher output volume compared to my other DACs, and the clipping appears to have been induced by the amp rather than DAC.

12dB attenuators on the RCA inputs seem to do the trick to prevent clipping. The thing that I thought was wonky phase shift was me being an idiot. There's a particular Tommy Emmanuel song that does this on the track itself, and I kept testing that one spot thinking that it was a repeatable issue. The repeatability was because it's in the frickin' recording. Derp.

 

It may have a rather high voltage output, maybe try using single end instead of using balanced out (and not both at same time) or reducing the volume at the OS/software level. Or you could try voltage dividing the output with inline attenuator/XLR pads. Parasound DAC 1600 can clip too via balanced out with some amps I have noticed (though not just a right channel), according to specs page it is rated for a whopping 6V out of XLR.

Just to completely f**k with your head even more... (wouldn't sweat it too much though TBH)

HDCD PMD100 equipped DACs can either have -6dB on regular redbook to match HDCD playback volumes OR no change to redbook and +6dB to HDCD. The kicker is that true HDCD material with peak extend is only a very very limited subsample of actual HDCD discs.

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/music/hdcd/gain_scaling.htm

I think most DACs ended up with analog domain gain scaling and are for the most part not easily user adjustable anyways. Assemblage and EAD are outliers that I have seen allowing you to change the setting via jumper.

 

First, check all the DC rail voltages for correct values and no ripple. For this initial check a digital voltmeter on AC and DC voltage settings should give some indications. I usually check on points like the power pins on op-amps, with the negative lead connected to common ground/ 0v.

 

Got a new vintage DAC in.
Forsell air reference dac. It's freaking huge, wider than raggy, longer than studio. It won't fit on my tiny rack!

Original packaging was impressive:

I heard this dac in Singapore in this system:


Despite the amp and speakers being unfamiliar (he was using sft-1 transport as well), I just had a feeling this dac was the business.

I'd been looking for a dac that leaves the sfd-1 mkii for dead. I tried just about everything modern under 10k and nothing really bested the sfd-1 mkii SE+ overall. Except this thing.

Early impressions: sft-1>forsell>studio>hd650
digitus free, very clean sounding, punchy mids, transients are natural but everything has a bit more bite and snap. Doesn't have super phat bass, but bass texture and extension is excellent, detail retrieval is phenomenal, this thing is digging deep and the studio is doing it's freaky thing.
Really happy so far. Will let it warm up for a few more days and post a thorough comparison to sfd-1. Also waiting on a lot of my gear to come back from repair to help with comparisons.

 

Picked up a Theta DS Progeny A in very good condition for around $ 200 today. Can't wait to test those 25 year old memories!

 

I still have my 1993 Adcom GDA600. I have kept it because I always enjoyed the sound it produced. So you want to have a really good laugh, I use a portable Sony cd player that has optical out, into an Audio Alchemy DTI, them coax to the Adcom.

 

Absolutely no shame in a setup like that! I love Adcom but never cared too much for the gda700 despite my preference for ua2000 but I've read the 600 is actually the better dac and also has tons of mod potential. I usually feed my dacs with ultra cheap disc transports too.

 

That Adcom has the PCM63 chips that everyone seems to love so much, including Mike Moffat.

And your choice of transport is funny.

 

Yep!

 

It just makes for a fun bedroom setup. The portable cd player is nice and small for that application.

 

Maybe 20 years ago I had an AMC DAC8. It could handle both 44.1 and 48 KHz 16-bit audio...amazing! It was a huge and clearly audible improvement over the output of my 1st gen CD player, a Marantz CD54 (yes, the Marantz was old even 20 years ago), so I loved it. Then I bought a fairly cheap Sony MiniDisc recorder Hi-Fi component and started making MDs of my CD collection for portable use. Using the recording monitoring facility on the MD recorder it took me about 3 minutes to realise that the DAC in the modern and up to date MD recorder was so much better than both the Marantz and the AMC that it wasn't even a contest. I daisy chained the components so that my MD recorder functioned as a DAC until I sold the Marantz and the AMC and bought a Sony CD player. The CD player did really well, I only disposed of it last year and it was still in perfect working order. Probably because for the last 10 years all I've done with physical media is rip it, scan the booklet, send the files to my multimedia server and put the disc on a shelf.

Anyway there's nothing wrong with a cheap CD player with a digital output unless your discs are dirty or scratched and you prefer spending thousands on marginally better error correction (maybe) instead of just handling the media carefully.

As an aside, one great thing about only buying new domestic audio hardware very occasionally i.e. once a decade or even less often, is that you do encounter real step changes in design, utility, features and sound quality. Except maybe loudspeakers: they were already brilliant several decades ago, I think they just got more affordable.

 

So the Marantz CD54 had the first multibit chip, the TDA1540. It was only a 14 bit chip and likely only about 10 ENOB. Phillips was working on 14-bit technology, but Sony convinced them to go with 16-bits. Phillips went to work on a new chip, but released their first players with the 14-bit chips. The TDA1541 16-bit chips were much better and a mainstay for awhile.

The ADC DAC 8 was an early Phillips 1-bit chip that is not up to par.

So now I can see why your MD player had a much better chip than either of these, even if just a really decent 1-bit Sony chip. You were an early digital adopter for sure.

 

It had that warm analogue vinyl feel in the bass and lower mids....but a horrible nothingness top end; really dull, no sparkle. That kind of sound worked well with those early CDs which had really been mastered for vinyl, rolling off the bass and emphasising the top to compensate for the vinyl medium, but I think if you put a modern recording in one of those 1st gen Marantz players you would really hate the player. Thankfully most of those awful "mastered for vinyl but issued on CD" albums have been remastered by now. Everyone is happy. Us listeners can enjoy the music just like when it was on LP, and the record companies have managed to get us to buy: Vinyl, Vinyl Again (because original wore out), CD, Remastered CD (because original CD was plain shit), 24-bit 96, 24-bit 192, DSD....and on it goes.

 

My first CD player, a Harmon-Kardon HD500 (mid-80s, bought second-hand in 1993), had the opposite problem: no bass. Didn't figure that out, though, until I bought my second (and current) in 1996. At that time the 'all CD players sound the same' faith was very prevalent, so hearing the difference was a revelation to me. The DAC on the HK was a PCM53 with 4x oversampling.

And yes, I understand what you're saying about the mastering. I have many CDs which are evidently straight from the vinyl masters, bright at the top end and even with very audible tape hiss (good bass though). Some of the earlier CD masterings were pretty good though, before the 'make it all really loud because we can' philosophy took over.

 

Some excellent info here, thanks

 

Does anyone have thoughts on the Nakamichi 1000P? My buddy was trying to get me to put together an all Japanese two channel system and when I saw the 1000P I fell in love with the industrial design. Based on the 1541A-S1 chips.

 

No, but I had a full nakamichi system one and it sounded amazing for its age!

 

Anything based on the TDA1541 chips is going to have a big part of that sound. The 1000P actually has two of them, meaning they are probably running in one for L and one for R in a balanced configuration. Looks very overbuilt with many inputs and balanced XLR outputs. Not sure on the build as I cannot tell from the small pictures online, but it may even have a separate transformer for the analog section and digital section. Either way, the power supply looks very overbuilt.

The Single and Double Crowns might have been a bit overstated. They weren't spec chips, just ones that measured particularly well and thus got a special designation. I suspect it likely helps to be better matched in a balanced configuration like this.

So, do you have one of these or are you just in the market for one? The only reason I ask is that many TDA1541 DAC's these days go for quite high prices for what they are. The old Philips/Magnavox/Marantz CD players can be had for much less. I even have an Adcom player with a 1541.

 

I have enjoyed the sound of many 1541 implementations and I wanted to build a diy one last year but realized that many sold online are fake chips and the high price of vintage gear with it was also prohibitive.