VPI Classic tips, tricks and setup advice!

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by deniall83, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Since quite a few people on here own and recommend the VPI Classic turntables I thought I’d start a thread for setup advice and tips etc.

    I’ve just set up my Classic 1 with a cheap Nagaoka MP-110 cart and I’m getting huge amounts of sibilance. Not sure if it’s the cart or set up that’s causing the problems. I’m tracking at 1.8g (suggested is 1.5-2g) and azimuth, VTA and cart alignment look good. I’m thinking it could be to do with anti skate. What are everyone’s thoughts?
     
  2. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    What are you using to measure VTF? Make sure it's accurate. Play more with VTA to see if you can make the sibiliance go away with adjustment. Another factor would be cart loading. What options does the phono offer and have you made adjustments there. While VPI's anti skate is crap, it shouldn't be responsible for sibiliance.
     
  3. P-Car

    P-Car New

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    This was super helpful for setting up my VPI rig:

    http://mintlp.com/best.htm

    They make a custom alignment tool just for your table and tonearm to make sure things are as accurate as possible.

    After using this tool, my rig sounded pretty amazing. I feel it's worth the wait and their asking price...

    I agree with bazeliio, the anti-skate should not be responsible for what you're hearing. The cart loading is my best guess along with possibly a bad cartridge all together?

    Good luck!
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Use of anti-skate with the JMW arms will do the reverse or at least dampen the transient response.

    Lower the pivot point of the arm relative to the needle to decrease VTA. Decreasing VTA, tail down will give you more bass less highs. Increaseing VTA, tail up, will give you more treble and leaner bass.

    Again, make sure your scale is accurate. I found the balance scales to be more accurate than cheap ChiFi digital scales. The MP-110 should not sound sibilant, like say the 2M Black. Also, is the cart new? If so, give it 15-90 hours. Carts need break in more than any other piece of gear.

    You can also try the VPI thin felt mat if the sound is too energetic for you. The VPI Classics with the metal platter are very energetic. Might be too much if you are use to Rega tables.
     
  5. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    I have a digital gauge to measure tracking force. I've used it for years without issue but will double check tonight. I'll definitely play with VTA more. I eyeballed it to parallel and left it. It's an MM phono so no adjustments.

    Thanks for the link. I'm hesitant to spend any more money until I can nail down the issue but certainly worth looking at down the line.

    I'll play with VTA a bit more tonight. Cart is brand new so I'm sure it will settle down a bit. I just haven't heard sibilance like this since I had a cheap Pro-Ject with super cheap cart. Upgrading the cart dramatically improved the sibilance on that table. My last cart (Denon DL-110) sounded great right from the start with no sibilance at all. Lot's more adjustment on the VPI though and lots more to go wrong.
     
  6. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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    We may have differing interpretations of "huge amounts", but that suggests to me something wrong with the cart.
     
  7. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    I suppose a potato pic is in order...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Ok well I briefly tried 3 LP's and noticed sibilance on all of them right from the start. A very obvious harsh s'ssss sound on high frequencies. There's no mistaking it.
     
  9. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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    As the others have said, re-check your settings, play with vta/sra, and also make sure the tone arm lift is fully clear from the tonearm when you drop the arm (it's adjustable). Don't despair, this has nothing to do with your new tt, which is gorgeous btw. Once you get it dialed in you'll be loving it.
     
  10. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Thanks. I'll definitely re-check everything tonight. Can't wait to get it sorted!
     
  11. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    I've all but given up on this cart and have requested a return from the eBay seller.

    I spent about 2 hours last night playing with alignment (both cart body and then cantilever lined up with the grid), VTA, azimuth and anti-skate. Nothing made a difference but I did notice that the right channel was a fair bit lower in volume than the left and couldn't fix that no matter what I tried. I think it's fair to say at this point the cart is a dud. I'm going to hook up another cart today and see how I go..
     
  12. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Fitted an AT95e just to make sure the turntable wasn't at fault. It's much better! Still a small amount of sibilance on some tracks but overall good. Loving the sound. Need to get myself a better cart now.
     
  13. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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    Hope you get your money back (you should, ebay leans towards the buyer).
     
  14. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Have any of you guys experienced hum from your Classic? What are you using to lube the motor?
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    40W motor oil. I'll get hum if I use a stiff belt.
     
  16. P-Car

    P-Car New

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    After speaking to VPI directly when I set my rig up a long time ago, I believe Harry told me to place a mouse pad under the motor to help dampen vibrations. This works with the Scout and Scoutmaster but that won't work with the newer tables like the Classic series as the motor is integrated into the plinth.

    The stiff belt makes sense from a vibrations standpoint.

    I hope your budget will allow you to pick up a nice cartridge so you can finally get over this hump and enjoy your table. I really like the Classic series tables. They look really good and they have a unique style.

    My effort and money went into the cartridge in my case and it paid off so maybe an upgrade in that department will yield better results?

    Good luck with your troubleshooting. I'm sure you'll iron things out if you stick with it...
     
  17. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Definitely getting a batter cart. Not sure to go with a Benz Ace SL or perhaps an Audio Technica ART9. I'm just a bit worried that a LOMC will make the hum worse. It's certainly not bad at the moment but I wouldn't want it to get worse.
     
  18. P-Car

    P-Car New

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    deniall83, have you thought about the VPI unipivot-specific cartridges from Soundsmith?

    https://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/fixed-coil/zephyr-mk-iii

    I have the original version and it sounds amazing with the VPI tonearm that is was designed around. The 2.4 mV output should work with what you have as far as not amplifying the hum that you're experiencing, etc. I'm not sure if the asking price is too high ($1,500) but I figured I would get it on your radar...

    Good luck!
     
  19. cbl117

    cbl117 New

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    Hi Deniall83, I thought I'd chime in as there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Not sure what happened in regards to the Nagaoka MP-110, but I will give some advice assuming you still have that cartridge. The stylus on that cartridge is an elliptical type, which should be much easier to dial in VTA/SRA. I would highly doubt VTA/SRA is responsible for your sibilance. VTF could cause sibilance, but more likely if it was on the low side of the VTF range for that cart. Cheap digital scales will vary greatly, and to the point that you will be chasing your tail. After messing around with multiple cheap-ish digital scales, I can wholeheartedly say the Ortofon DS-3 is the best. It is expensive, but you get very accurate and repeatable measurements. I would recommend aiming on the higher side of the VTF range.

    Uni-pivot arms are very tricky to setup and you'll find that changing VTA/SRA will actually change your VTF, so its difficult to sort out whether you are hearing a SRA change or VTF change. Best to get the arm parallel to the platter, and set VTF at that position. Usually you will find that proper SRA is very near the parallel starting position.

    That all said...my personal opinion is your problem is either a damaged cartridge or issue with offset (zenith angle) or overhang. The accuracy of these two parameters is directly correlated to the accuracy of your alignment jig. Are you using the VPI jig? I have found that the VPI jig will get you close, but tools like Dr. Feickert or Mint will get you much better accuracy and less mistracking (aka sibilance). Antiskate adjustment could cause sibilance, but it will be in one channel. Are you experiencing the sibilance in both channels, or only one channel? Too much antiskate will give you sibilance on the left channel. Too little antiskate will give you sibilance on the right channel.

    VPI's antiskate is very misunderstood and tricky to dial in. I have found it best to try and take the intrinsic antiskate force out of the tonearm wire arc first, and then you have a much better shot at dialing the antiskate force using the mechanical mechanism. The best way to test that the tonearm wire is not adding antiskate is to set VTF to zero so the arm is floating. Then carefully place the arm mid record, and see if it pulls to the center or edge of the record. You want it to remain still. If it pulls to the center then you have too little antiskate and you need to twist the wire counterclockwise. If it pulls to the edge you have too much antiskate and you need to twist the wire clockwise. Once you know the wire isn't inducing a skating force, then you can dial in the proper antiskate force using the fishing line and donuts :).

    Your cart is MM, so resistive loading is not going to cause sibilance. Set your phono stage to 47Kohm and be done there. Capacitive load is important for your cart though. Do you have the ability to adjust capacitance? Good Luck!! Patience is key.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  20. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    @cbl117 Good post, but put in some paragraphs.
     

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