WHAT IS SBAF? 10 ARTICLES FOR BEHAVIOR

Discussion in 'Tales from the Bully Pulpit' started by purr1n, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    The edit button seems to have disappeared from my posts (both desktop and mobile). Was this a conscious decision?

    Edit: er ... it seems not all of them. The edit and delete buttons are there for some, for others just the report button.

    Edit 2: Of my last 30 posts or so, I can edit this one and 3 posts ago. All my other posts going back 30 or so appear as if they belong to others.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  2. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Read this. This was epic and the (patent) troll was unsuccessful.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/letter-to-a-patent-troll-dear-piece-of-sht/
     
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  3. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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  4. captkirk

    captkirk Khan's BFF

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    I'm not sure if it was stated explicitly, but atomicbob was mentioning some concern about an imposed time limit on "edits" and what I assume from your comments the ability to delete a post. In his case, I assume it concerned the ability to edit his measurement posts as new data was found to keep things succinct.

    It's likely to reinforce that the forum does't delete any content, and that editing a post after a member has made an ass of themselves is discouraged.

    Edit: for spelling and grammer. <<<<<<<<< "this is what it's for, or proof-read y'all"
     
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  5. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    And dislike has returned!

    One of my recent posts got disliked. It was so innocuous that I can't even remember what it was about. Doh! Maybe that is what the disliker disliked!
     
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  6. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Some of my technical measurements threads need upwards of 20 posts to present all the data. I thought it would be convenient for readers if the posts were consecutive. However I can't prevent someone from enthusiastically responding during the 1 to 3 hours while uploading of extensive amounts of data. So I put a big notice at the top of the first post for a short while to not respond until I am finished. Then I *edit* that post and remove the notice when finished reserving the consecutive posts. Meanwhile I am busy editing and uploading data. With a 20 minute limit, that strategy is dead in the water from the very beginning.

    Then there are the spelling and grammatical errors, mis-labeled data, incorrect screenshots, etc. And occasionally I find that a particular measurement had a problem and needs updating. I find it difficult to make perfect posts, even when I have spent hours preparing offline in a document program and pre-queued the screenshots. Errors sneak into complex presentations.
     
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  7. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Perhaps the Gods can give you moderator privileges.
     
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  8. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Or better, a multi-tiered approach to this particular issue allowing a specific editing privilege of posts older than 20 minutes for those with legitimate needs.

    Moderator privileges would be too all encompassing for this type of need. Those who have them at SBAF work very hard to keep this place running and I very much respect and appreciate their volunteer efforts. Reminds me, time to donate again.
     
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  9. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    You donate more than money, @atomicbob . And I would trust you with Moderator privileges. If that was the simplest way for you to do what you do, I think that would be the way to go.
     
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  10. Dhruvmeena96

    Dhruvmeena96 Rando

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    LoL....
    Sbaf is better than head fi...

    Resourcefullness
     
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    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  11. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    MeenaJi,
    You could have done better. Avoid chat language, just doesn't fit here.
    Had you elaborated why it's better, it would have added something meaningful.
     
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  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Added to first post:

    ADD 7/3/2018 Vendor / MOT rules:
    1. Vendors or MOTs (manufacturers of the trade) may initiate posts concerning their products only in the vendor announcements or dedicated vendor sub-forums, and not in any of the main or gear sub-forum areas. This rule is intended to prevent 1372 random vendors flooding the main forum sections with their XMOS / ESS Sabre DACs.
    2. Please do not "game" the above rule by having shills or sockpuppets post on your behalf. We will know. Just be happy that at least you have a place to post on SBAF without someone asking you for money.
    3. MOTs may answer forum members' questions on their gear in any area of the site. In fact, this is encouraged.
    4. MOTs should refrain from making negative comments or constructive criticism of other MOTs' gear. MOTs should also refrain from making statements that put themselves or their gear in a better light relative to other MOTs. MOTs should avoid posting measurements of other MOTs products. These actions are just bad form. And I also do not want MOTs at each other necks like what happens on Computer Audiophile on occasion.
    5. Please be aware that SBAF admins and moderators have the right to make the final call, however capricious it may seem to you. Ultimately, just use good judgment.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  13. Claud

    Claud Living the ORFAS dream

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    What a great thread!! I wish I had read it sooner, then I would not have gotten all those "dislikes". For the record, I did not know that this is a closed community threads. Maybe that is why although I applied for membership in December 18, I was not able to post until a month ago. I am a member of another forum where around 30 of us have been active for around 20 some years . Its like a family, like here.
     
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  14. pechelman

    pechelman Acquaintance

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    With some of the other discussions currently going on, it seemed appropriate to bump this thread even if it is perma-ultra-obviously stickied to the forum header. I read this before joining and thought it might be a good time to reread. Grateful that the registration was open to randos so I could participate here, but watching from the sidelines is sometimes the better way to go.
     
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  15. jaker782

    jaker782 Facebook Friend

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    I do think this is a valid point. The perceived "friendliness" of SBAF does seem contradictory to its namesake. Perhaps a more fitting title would be Super Best Audio FAMILY as it really is more about tough love rather than being everyone's buddy. Using the parenting analogy, if you try to be your kids best friends, they will walk all over you. Tough love works better in the long run.

    The goal here is to keep the signal to noise ratio in check. We have 2 ears and 1 mouth, so we all should really be listening 2/3 of the time and only speaking 1/3 of the time in all facets of life. Lurking is encouraged here for a reason.

    When I see SBAF, I read FRIENDS but think FAMILY. I would petition for a change but it would be a lot of work to change the site branding, redo all the shirts and merchandise, etc...
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    You might not be aware...

    1. "Amir" is a name we used to prefer not to mention much, if at all. He loves the never-ending argument, and turned up here once. Instead of the argument, what he got from SBAF was, "oh, it's you: no thanks."

    2. It is not "SBAF vs ASR." The ASR Review thread has been a calling out; a placing on record. As I understand it, @purr1n simply felt it needed to be done. Things needed to be said, whether anybody listened or not. That's not a competition.
    No, we are not a family, we are friends. Families don't get to choose each other: we do. No, we are not always friendly to each other or to others. And no, sometimes it isn't fair. That's life.
     
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  17. LuckyX2

    LuckyX2 Rando

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    Just chiming in my $0.02 here since it's my post in question.
    I'm fully aware of the whole Amir drama and that's why I signed up here instead of there. I liked the attitude here more from my ~2 years of lurking, or at least I did.

    I don't want people to just be accepting of everything everyone says. That's not good and that's not how we improve anything. I'm not advocating for everyone gets a trophy, everyone is right, I very much dislike that.

    What I do think is pretty shitty though is calling my opinion BS twice and suggesting I leave and go to ASR just because I mentioned that it seems the balanced output is noticeably superior to the SE on the Jot 2. That's ridiculous.

    And with that, I'm done continuing this because it's a poor use of board and mind space. I'm going to go back to enjoying my audio equipment :)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  18. jaker782

    jaker782 Facebook Friend

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    Very good point! In that respect friends is better... you can always leave this friendship and come and go as you please. Not so easy with family!
     
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  19. Ardacer

    Ardacer Almost "Made"

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I'm sorry you feel that way. First, you need to have a little bit of thick skin. Second, I read a set of responses to one of your posts and what you said is not what happened.

    @Vtory called you out for what sounded more like a blanket statement instead of an opinion:

    Basically anyone buying the Jotunheim 2 should be using it balanced only. If you want SE, get an Asgard 3.​

    Also, @Vtory qualified his "BS" statement with the following:

    Or at least too naively put.
    And explained the subtle reasons why. I would even add that I prefer the Jotunheim 2 SE over Asgard 3. I'm generally not a fan of the Asgard 3 except with a handful of headphones, the HD800 among one of them. I mean there are times when a statement like that is warranted, but even then it's qualified For example, folks here tend to say that the SE outputs from Yggdrasil sucks. However, no one would discourage anyone from using the Yggdrasil this way because it's still a good DAC from the SE outputs.

    SBAF is a complex place and there is a lot of subtle information and understandings which are interwoven among threads. I sort of equate Jotunheim 2 balanced and SE with dual mono Aegir and single Aegir. Dual mono will have lower distortion, particularly odd order, and will have quite a bit power. In most circumstances, dual mono is better. However in my case with the super sensitive big JBLs with their lean and mean bass, I elected to go with a single Aegir.

    I think folks here would have preferred your impressions based on specific pairings as opposed to a blanket statement, even if it turned out later that after you tried 14 headphones, you preferred the balanced output on all 14. FWIW, I did prefer the SE output from Jotunheim 2 with Grado HF-3 running the regular pads (well at least the softer Geekria version of the regular pads). Opinions based on direct firsthand experience is appreciated and never gets crapped on. This is especially true for newer posters. The folks who have been around awhile are given more leeway for conjecture - but even then - few will do so, and if they do so, they will almost always qualified it that way.

    Also, you have to be very careful when you say stuff like "20 times higher" distortion. This statement is a huge red flag that you may not know what you are talking about - or need "cleansing" from ASR's oversimplified models. Call us overly sensitive, but getting sciency without understanding is a huge trigger - expect a tsunami of dislikes. The reasons are as follows:
    • Are you talking voltage levels of percentage of the distortion?
    • At what output levels for the fundamental?
    • What distortion levels are we talking about when we say something is 20 times higher? For example 0.005% THD is 20 times higher than 0.00025% THD. Yet 0.005% THD is still extremely good.
    • What's the nature of the distortion if they are different? THD level is less meaningful than pattern of distortion, the distribution of harmonics seems to matter more than the level.
    • Amir himself could not hear the craptastic super high distortion of the plate amps in the JBL LSR305.
    I would urge you to try again and not pile on with additional posts prolonging arguments like how people do on HF.

    P.S.

    The SE distortion looks to be about 30db higher (at a glance, I didn't look that hard) than the BAL distortion from the Jotunheim 2. This is with a 300-ohm load and voltage of approximately 0.5Vrms. The SE distortion is still about -85db below the fundamental. From a pure scientific point of view, I seriously doubt anyone can hear this with a 1kHz steady-state tone. What's interesting is that the SE output has significantly higher portion of 2nd harmonic to 3rd. The BAL output has both harmonics somewhat equal with the 2nd being slightly less than the 3rd. All of this distortion (BAL and SE) is too low to hear, at least with the single steady-state tone test. However, it's very possible these levels and characteristics may somehow relate to transient response distortion (no one has figured out a good way to do this) or what we observe subjectively when real music is playing.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021

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