Why SINAD doesn't matter

They’re not buying the great line level gear with modern opamps. All of those approaches change the sound anyway.

the thx branded stuff is mostly ass

Mic pres? Well they all change the sound. All of the two stage pres have a color. Sometimes it’s just as strong as cleaner pentodes but it’s usually cleaner than api and ams neve. People should get something that works and doesn’t kill the sound like a Focusrite Scarlet or ti pga2500 based interface dick shrinker chip. Even the THAT based pres are a ton better.

same with converters. They don’t want clean. They’re not rocking Apogee Symphonies, Merging, Bricasti, Crane Song, Prism not FireWire/Usb, and even Lynx. They want to buy something half assed, well marketed, cheaped out, and be told it’s better based on ad copy and select measurements. If you told them that the Burl is pretty clean at lower gain levels but still lies a bit and the Crane Song is just as euphonic as the Burl and is pretty much best stuff around at space and depth despite a -90 ish SNR, the would freak and try to debate you. These guys just want their purchase validated and to pat each other on the back for owning the same thing.

 

Using SINAD as an audio component selection criteria is about as silly as picking a means of transportation based on the purity of the color of the vehicle.

 

Dead and insipid is right. Like all the Class D amps I have listened to over the years, the NCore stuff gives me headaches after an hour or so of listening. I don't get that with quality Class A and Class A/B amps to which I have spent time listening.

 

Doesn't this argument that Amir himself can't hear bad measures serves against most used measurements though?

If you go to his review of pure tube amps, like the Bottlehead Crack, the Little Dot MK3, the Schiit Valhalla 2 and the Woo Audio WA7, they all perform horribly bad by his standards, and yet he himself considers the sound ok (and OK following his philosophy is all there is). In other words, do measurements matter if the output doesn't do grotesque things like clipping or artifacts, and the amp itself is tonally neutral?

This is a honest doubt as I myself can't hear a difference between my L30 and my LD MK3, as they are tonally identical to me albeit the LD Output impedance is high (50 ohm) and it could mellow the low end of the 6XX, though I myself can't hear it in absolute listening.

 

Not really, no. But even outside those constraints, measurements and sound preferences are largely mutually exclusive. I'm not even particularly experienced, and yet I've still heard:
Great measuring amp that sounds great.
Crap measuring amp that sounds great.
Great measuring amp that sounds crap.
Crap measuring amp that sounds crap.

I'm 99% certain the Crack he used was improperly grounded within his signal chain. Installing a ground loop breaker between safety and signal ground (consisting of anti-parallel diodes, or a 10R resistor paralleled with a 0.1uF capacitor) would have dramatically cut the noise floor. A tube shield can also cut the noise floor of the Crack even further.

 

From the horse’s mouth: Mister ASR himself says, “Reviews are not science.” — https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-review-comparison.17161/page-9#post-557116

That whole thread is hilarious. He measures electrostatic amps with completely incorrect loads, get schooled by Kevin Gilmore and a few of his own senior members, retests (this goes to his credit), and starts a new thread where his own data shows the distortion is much much lower than he originally claimed but he doesn’t actually admit to this and one of his own members has to point out some semblance of reality.

 

Funnily enough though, the Pioneer M22 probably uses a crapton of NFB and still sounds good (Is this not 100+ dB SINAD? http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-M-22.html)

 

I was lucky, having been a recording /mixing engineer in a former life. I was trained how to listen critically and carefully, measurements be damned.

What really cheeses me off about ASR is that they have merely swapped the awful marketing - speak with an even more awful pseudo-scientific approach that robs acolytes of their most precious gift, their EARS. The percentage of ASR cultists who won't consider a component or nervously wondering when an item will be measured so they "know" if it's good or not is incredibly distressing - - to say nothing of the regular slander against their betters.

 

Also, I bought an Oktoresearch because of price and functionality, and appreciated the good measurements ASR published as an added bonus. I was already very knowledgeable of the rPi streaming "sound" and a huge fan. But my Krell and Focal gear was purchased solely on subjective reviews that described perfectly the sound I was after. In hindsight I would say those written descriptive reviews were far more accurate and helpful to me.

 

Why care though? If they're so close-minded to prefer listening to shitty gear, it's their own problem. Unlike many real world situations where one's choices can negatively impact others, audio gear is meaningless in the grand scheme. Let them enjoy compressed, bright, fatiguing garbage.

The vast majority of manufacturers don't give a f**k about ASR and don't build gear for them. I'm halfway convinced Schiit makes their "heresy" versions for no reason other than to troll the acolytes.

 

I get why you're saying that. The flip side is that the more attention ASR gets, the more influential it becomes. I think debunking and educating (like the tech savvy members here do) is a lot more productive than manufacturers making products just to please #QAmir. Doing so only validates what he's doing. If they (manufacturers) put their energy into debunking and educating rather than pleasing his highness, I believe it would go further to stop the madness. Anywho, I'm not a doctor of psychology. I could be totally off.

 

Really???? Holy crap....

 

Yes, that's why it's become my fight too. It's insidious, deceitful nonsense and very poisonous.

 

They're too big to ignore and causing tremendous damage, and the site is regularly filled with more hysterical misinformation than literally any other audiophile site I've ever encountered.

 

And eventually there's only crap left to buy.

But... echoing @Pancakes: Holy shit, ASR really has that much influence on that many people and on the market? That's sort of... Microsoftian.

Having encountered Amir, the last thing I ever wanted to do was to visit his site. So, apart from occasional post links, I haven't. Ignorance may be bliss, but it can also be dangerous.

 

How did you find that out? Alexa rankings currently show ASR at a rank of 59k and engagement stats of 1.3 page views per visitor and 3:10 minutes on site, but HF at a rank of 21k and with significantly higher engagement of 11 page views per visitor and 10:21 minutes on site. I know Alexa numbers aren't all that reliable, but still.