HateDis650 (oh God the dark side please don’t)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by rhythmdevils, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Mods please move this post to sbaf blogs subforum with renaming to "RD's HD650 disappreciation talks" lol. Well, 45% joke.

    I believe 650 could be a great tool to characterize audiophiles. whether or in what context one likes or dislikes 650 would be a great proxy to his audio preference.
     
  2. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I am still suprised by some that just do not like them. I could never get rid of mine. No, they are not perfect, but they do so much so well. Although I also understand they are not for everyone.

    I think my 650's were still the most passed around headphone at a meet at one time because no one else had a pair. It is the SM58 or headphones. So common everyone knows the sound. @rhythmdevils is fair to chase a pair down just to have a common comparison.
     
  3. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    you’re probably misunderstanding. I don’t dislike them because of their FR. Thsts agreeable though not ideal. It’s similar to the og HE500 which I think is the best stock ortho I’ve ever heard though stil not great. I hate the HD650’s tonality/timbre. It’s as bad or worse as BA timbre for me though completely different. They have such dry tonality and rounded off transients. Bleh.

    but it somehow gets fixed by huge amounts of power. one of the best rigs I’ve ever heard was an uber SACD player of some sort, a Singlepower SDS XLR amp and recabled balanced HD650’s playing Dark Side Of The Moon. Mind blowingly good. And there was an Orpheus right next to it which was sort of mind blowing but in the opposite direction.
     
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  4. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    What is "huge amounts of power?"

    I think my headamp puts 2000mW into 300 ohm. Sound is good. Upgraded cables help remove the infamous "veil," too.
     
  5. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I don’t know. I’ve only liked them out of TOTL amps like the best from Eddie Current, Singlepower before the drama, etc. my experience with them sounding good is dated and those TOTL amps don’t exist anymore.

    probably 2-3k type amps. Maybe there’s exemptions though especially today. Never heard the SW51+.
     
  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Haha I said that mostly reflecting myself. And what you said is why I specifically said "in what context".

    Unlike many others here, I get to seriously explore hd650 AFTER they're super hyped. I always failed to find any exclusive 'magic'. Repeatedly ended up with borderline disappointment or lukewarm satisfaction. They're not bad in any situations, but never give me extra technical benefits I'm eager to hear from audiophile headphones. At least not to the extent they're hyped. Amps help. Dacs help. They scale.. although the way I see this is they finally sound decent with amps and dacs whose prices ridiculously unmatch to 6x0. Furthermore, there's neither wow nor engagement that I can exclusively enjoy.

    For the reference, I believe I have tried out any major sub-1k amps well received in sbaf regarding 650. All I said above applied to both stock and kiss-mod (along with ancient mods).

    My dispreference given as above, I am using 650 to measure relative distance in preference. I carefully look at in what context people like hd650. If someone advocates hd650 where I don't like it, extremely high chance there's a strong negative association. And I take that into consideration in reading his subjective evaluations. That's what I meant by "characterization".
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  7. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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  8. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Oof, you’ve described my own experience, I’ve mostly gotten used to them, very few ‘wow’ moments...
     
  9. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    The magic of Senn 600 series isn't that they do the most good, but the least bad... and the sad truth is that 'not bad' is the highest bar for performance for off the shelf unmodded headphones today, just like 10 or 20 years ago. Most still fail to meet that standard. I just want headphones that don't feel like a compromise to listen to next to my speakers+subs.
     
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  10. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    Yes, this is similar to my take on them. They're the kind of headphone that don't wow you when you first put them on, but I can say for me, as time passed, other headphones felt like abusive relationships. Just... things I tolerated about headphones because of some technicality or character it had that truly made it stand out as serious business. I'm talking, something legitimately impressive - "Wow, I'm gonna love this forever."

    It's just... there is always that dig. The one I think I'll love never ends up being so. Tragic, really. Always something that gets to me. Most headphones I have ever owned have distinct 'right day' and 'wrong day'. The HD650's don't have that effect on me.

    I dunno, I'm not much for the highlander headphone... that one superior type or design. I think in lieu of a very high degree of mathematical precision and understanding, it's probably fine to have a bunch of differently flawed headphones, as long as we're improving them. It's always like that, isn't it?

    Worth mentioning, the HD650's aren't the only headphones I own or use regularly. And chances are good that by the end of this year I'll have at least one more. I kinda wonder, how many HD600/650 headphone heads actually keep those as their only headphone? Not even joking here. Genuinely curious.

    It's just nice to have that old reliable. That one pair you just know is gonna work for you any time. That's what those headphones represent for me.
     
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  11. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Yup. That's why 6x0 survived as an all time standard.

    I don't necessarily agree with @E_Schaaf 's second half assertion. I am way way way more favorable for contemporary off the shelf headphones -- I kinda think most major players, albeit failed in first few years, eventually came up with "things" that I can live with only whereas 650 continuously failed to me. But such is the nature of preference diversity.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  12. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    Maybe I just haven't found that thing yet, then. But I would agree, the tech today is hitting a really good point of growth... all sorts of interesting and worthwhile headphones out there. Planars are grabbing my attention a lot more these days than they ever did in the past. There is still so much that can be done - I can see that even from a laymans point of understanding how they work, but the improvements have really warmed me up to them.

    I really do wonder if I would ever find that piece of gear that I could truly live with forever. HD650's, I would and probably not feel too bad about it, but even that reads 'less than ideal' to me. The reason I have different headphones is because when I put any one of them on, they're the only ones I want on my head. It's always the best headphone, for that time. I enjoy switching it up, and then having an easy baseline to come back to when I grow tired of that sound, the one that never really overdoes it for me. It's like that staple dish. But if I only ate staple dishes, I'd be bored eventually, right?

    So yes, preference diversity. I think of people's preferences on levels, like a tree where there is a core group of rooted aspects and then branches going out. Even within that, there's a lot of room for variety. I can't shake the feeling that there will always be more things I don't even know I like. That's why I really appreciate the loaners here. But it's also why I retain the one I know I always like using. It allows me to take chances on living with things that may not pan out. Who knows? Maybe one day I find a better fail-safe. There have been plenty of times in the whole journey where a transcendence happened and I never really heard things the same again. So I try to keep it firmly present and near-future tense.
     
  13. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Reading this thread, I plugged in hd650. Gave up after two tracks. Re-verifying I can't hear some information I want to hear. Switching back to clear mg and verite, every loss recovered and it makes me comfortable. I also feel both less fatiguing than 650 for unknown reasons (at some point I started to think 650 edged and fatiguing slightly).

    Sigh. My ears maybe don't deserve them... lol.
     
  14. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Find 6XX fatiguing too. Dirty bass and some “hard” upper mids that I cant exactly ascertain. I just dont have an adequate amp is what I decided. 6XX did help me understand the meaning of timbre after coming from planar. Was a hifiman fan until I heard a 6XX.
     
  15. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    Sweet Uncle Jesus Christ, I have never seen a more convoluted thread around selling a beautiful amazing wonderful angel of a member a friggin HD650.
    Can someone just sell this dude a 650?
     
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  16. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I’m enjoying my creation very much! I’m not sure I even want one anymore!
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    yes this is why they are so popular. But for me, their tonality/timbre is actually a serious sin of commission. They are not the “only sins of omission” go to, back up, comfort headphones that everyone says they are. (For me).

    and I will argue to the death against this idea that they are resolving especially when they are commonly claimed to be “more resolving than planars”. BULLSHIT. just because you’ve never heard a properly damped ortho doesn’t mean shit. A well designed ortho would scale and outperform the hd650 in every way.
     
  18. ext1

    ext1 MOT: Jupiter Audio Research

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    @rhythmdevils I would give you one I have lying around, except there are also so many micro revisions of the 650 that I wouldn’t know what would work for you!

    I would have loved to listen to your modded orthos though. Sadly too far away from home.
     
  19. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Stop it, all of you. @rhythmdevils is a clickbait conspiritualist. He's just trying troll you to boost his influencer status and sell books on his ASR approved audio nervosa weight loss diet.
     
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  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Whoa, guys... we can be the top level of his new pyramid-selling organisation. Serious money awaits!
     
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