ZMF Atrium Headphone Review and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Mar 20, 2022.

  1. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    This is a good example of the problem with looking at headphone retail pricing from a simplistic BOM point of view. in the end your front damping costs for this headphone and any future ones are not going to be the pennies on the dollar most would assume. Anyone who has ever been involved in actually creating and manufacturing something knows that this specific experience of yours is typical and generalizable. In any case a bit off topic carry on...
     
  2. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Very true - obviously off topic and we can talk about this elsewhere sometime, but there was very much a point where I had to "commit" to ZMF, meaning if I wanted to make everything proprietary, it was going to cost a lot up front with a lot of risk. Fortunately things have gradually gotten better since that first decision moment, but it's a constant struggle. I definitely feel for all the DAC brands dealing with chip issues now. Just thinking about it keeps me up at night.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022
  3. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    I'd like to thank @ChaChaRealSmooth for allowing me to listen to the Atrium as I thought they would likely be the next iteration of the Auteur. But it looks like it's FR is warmer than the Auteur, so as much as I loved the Atrium, I may swing back to the Auteur, or soon the Auteur classic as I'm looking for a less warm headphone.

    Also did a somewhat serious comparo to the Verite Open I have on the SW51+ low z input. For me the driver material stood out as I thought the Verite sounded "slicker" likely meaning faster than the Atrium. However, I did enjoy how integrated the sound on the Atrium compared. I think as more people hear this and if they have both they can do a much better job at a review. There's a reason I don't join loaner tours as much, but also I'm happy with what I have.

    The Atrium will definitely find its audience, and ppl will maybe have to choose between the Atrium and Verite Open if they get them together. They have strengths I think, different from each other that people will like.

    Edit: Yes, blame me. I was the one holding up the upcoming Atrium tour. Lol.
     
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  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Indeed! I thought the desk in front of me was shaking. The textures sounded like they came from the Abyss headphone!

    Quick update: I just got the Radial Vented Titan Meshes and installed them. Now we are talking! The upper mids aren't so peaky (without any mesh), but there's still a forwardness to them not unlike the HD650. The highs are still slightly dark, but not as much before. I don't feel it would be objectionable to those who dislike dark sounding headphones. In fact, the Atrium feels like a super HD650, albeit with a twist: the woody cup coloration. Think of an Audio Technica woody with a tonal response and openness like the HD650, but way better bass quality, textures, macro, and with deeper stage.

    5F4A0103 (Large).JPG

    I haven't been able to do a lot of back to back comparison with the solid mesh and Radial Vented Titan mesh; however I do get the sense that the vented mesh opens up the Atrium not insignificantly, particularly in the mids and highs. In this respect, I didn't feel the vented mesh was any different from no mesh. By opens up, I mean less constrained, more dynamics, livelier, more responsive to input signal. @Hands: curious if you felt the same thing.

    P.S. Will take full set of measurements with the vented mesh this weekend.

    P.S.S. This is like the Abyss of dynamics, in how it hits like a freight train and reproduces the bass textures, the drum skins vibrating, the synth effects of bass drops, etc. Except the Atrium murders the Abyss (OG) with respect to plankton, has more even tonal response, and doesn't make you look like a Cyberman from Doctor Who.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022
  5. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    @purr1n How large is the diameter of the Radial Vented Titan mesh? I wonder whether I can use this elegant thing on my Grado RS1i. Thanks.
     
  6. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    @Hands set is in the shop for a quick tune up, had a little extra bass in the measurements, going to give it a run through to make sure we are good to go for production and get it back to him with some different Titan meshes to play with!
     
  7. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    If there's any headphones you guys want to try this on, send us an email through the website. I am a little bit of a headphone addict so I have a bunch of models from other MFR in house (including grado), we can laser cut this stuff however needed and as mentioned earlier, have a bit of an excess...!
     
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  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It's slightly larger than the size of the Atrium driver is which huge. I am guessing 60mm. It won't fit into any Grado.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Relative differences between the mesh (subject to human errors and external factors to placement consistency)

    ZMF Atrium Mesh Comparison
    Frequency Response
    GRN = Universe Pads with Vented Titan Mesh
    YEL = Universe Pads with Solid Mesh
    upload_2022-3-24_9-45-4.png

    All measurements going forward will be with the Vented Mesh - as this is my strong preference. The frequency response measurement really doesn't change much with the Vented Mesh. There's a that small peak at 5kHz which is moved up a little bit; however, the 4kHz dip is filled in. The mid-treble dip at 10-12kHz still seems to be there as with Solid Mesh, although 9kHz is up a bit. Hard to say as these could be caused by very tiny inconsistencies in placement or pad deformation. The frequency response really only tells us so much.

    It's like what I've been saying for years: frequency response tells us some very important things, but it hardly gives us the entire story. In fact, I don't think even it's a primary determinant of how something sounds. Let's do a thought (or real) experiment. Take the HD800 and EQ it so the frequency response looks like the HD650. Does it even sound anywhere near the HD650? No it doesn't. In fact, most people if you didn't tell them wouldn't even notice the HD800 was EQ'd.

    What I wanted to say here is that the Atrium with the Vented Mesh sounds more different than what the frequency response would necessarily indicate. Sure, there is now more 5kHz, more bite, more edge. What's not indicated by the FR measurement are the changes in transient response, the increased liveliness, responsiveness, and dynamics, particularly in the mids on up. There's more appear mid-treble despite no indication otherwise in the FR. There's a stronger attack than would otherwise be indicated by fill at 4kHz and bump at 5kHz. With the Solid Mesh, I felt the sound was more constrained, the presentation more stately and proper. With the Vented Mesh, the Atrium feels more unleashed. I can see how this could be too much for most people.

    Let me put it this way: when I finally got a real drum set to replace the electronic drum set in the house, my family and I were like holy cow! Real drums are f'ing loud and extremely dynamic. Like really f'ing loud with dynamics that jump 30db SPL (ambient) to probably 120db SPL on the hit of the snare or cymbals! It's something that takes a few days, that not only takes the ears, but also for the body to adjust to. What I am getting at is that some listeners may find this dynamicism unsettling. If this is the case, then the Solid Mesh would be recommended. Now if you are the type of person who likes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when someone hits the drum kit while you are not expecting it, then the Vented Mesh is for you. There's no wrong or right, it's personal preferences, and it could even depend upon mood. A quick note is that with the Vented Mesh, the Atrium is the most aggressive sounding ZMF.

    The other consideration is that I have could some hearing damage. 5kHz peaks don't bother me and are sometimes hard for me to discern. Steep nulls from 4kHz to 5kHz in hearing response are typical for hearing damage from extended exposure to loud SPLs.

    Now, let's continue with a proper measurement suite for the Atrium using the Vented Titan Mesh:


    ZMF Atrium
    Universe Pads - Vented Mesh
    upload_2022-3-24_9-50-54.png

    ZMF Atrium
    Universe Pads - Vented Mesh
    CSD
    FPC Atrium Vented L.jpg
    FPC Atrium Vented R.jpg
     
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  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ZMF Atrium
    Universe Pads - Vented Mesh
    Distortion SPL vs Frequency at Various SPL
    upload_2022-3-24_10-35-26.png

    Not quality planar low levels of distortion. Pattern is descending harmonics from the second. No third order sticking out. This is good. Distortion is on similar in many respects to the HD650 except the Atrium has overall less distortion below 80Hz (10db at 20Hz at loudest level) and much better third harmonic distortion from 120Hz onward. The HD650 has high third order that extends beyond 200Hz, which explains the "HD650 veil". The Atrium doesn't have this. The Atrium does have higher 4th order in the lows, around 75Hz as volume is increased. I wonder if overall richness of harmonics here explains the warm tone as the frequency response doesn't account for this, otherwise we would see an elevated 200-300Hz.
     
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  11. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Brain dumb, requesting older %-based distortion graphs with harmonics overlaid at 100dB. Might make it easier to compare with some of the older measurements then.

    Also taking this opportunity to thank @GoldenOne for introducing a track I'm currently obsessed with, haha (mostly familiar with pre-2010 Bjork stuff, and I'm usually not a fan of remixes).
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ZMF Atrium
    Universe Pads - Vented Mesh
    "Old Style" Distortion in Percent ~104dbSPL
    upload_2022-3-24_11-17-29.png
    upload_2022-3-24_11-18-5.png
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ZMF Atrium
    Universe Pads - Vented Mesh
    Attack and Decay Envelope for 10-Cycle Burst
    upload_2022-3-24_11-24-47.png

    Told ya, aggressive (see 4.8kHz). Also the tips of the at 120Hz, 500Hz, and 1500Hz.

    This is somewhat atypical for a ZMF, at least from what we've seen. More like a Grado transient. I am curious what would happen with the solid mesh option. That's later in the week.
    upload_2022-3-24_11-26-54.png

    This one is for you @Lyander:
    upload_2022-3-24_11-29-32.png

    Also, two things about the 50Hz. It's super subtle, but after doing a bunch of these now and having a good dataset to correlate to what I'm hearing:
    1. Nice squared off, no overshoot (actually not good sound - gooey bass), nor undershoot (limp and soft)
    2. Starts "early" (tight solid attack). I believe only the SR1a beats the Atrium here with the early start, but SR1a has some very slight undershoot which Atrium does not.
    upload_2022-3-24_11-31-9.png
     
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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  15. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Sent him some today - probably would end up getting to him at the same time if you sent it, so keep that set as an standby I guess!

    We're taking into account all the feedback we're getting with the units we sent out - and likely we will end up with some kind of middle ground damping from the Titan mesh that's between the version Marv has and the full solid as stock when production starts. As that middle area that's not quite as open as the radial mesh, and not quite as closed as full closed will probably suit most people, and then if someone wants the headphone a little darker, or a little brighter, we will will have options for that. If you want the Marv version, just write it in the notes, and we will ship the headphones with that Titan mesh. Just write something like "send me the radial marv mesh" in the notes section for us.

    One thing I noticed when lasering a bunch of different patterns with the Titan mesh, is that patterns that are more akin to the "Davinci" golden mean pattern, much like that of the Verite grille, end up with smoother peaks that go to the same level and version that are the same % open as other more egalitarian versions. For whatever reason, the golden mean patterns keep that treble area smoother without losing the dB level desired.

    So anyways that's why we ended up with the pattern that we did for the Titan mesh. They do take a bit longer to laser, but fortunately the lets us walk away from the laser for a bit longer to do other stuff.
     
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  16. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Brief impressions from 10-15 minutes of listening. Don't take this too seriously given short amount of time I spent.

    Summary: I'd like to buy one.

    Very euphoric, very energetic and dynamic without being fatiguing, full and rich organic sound, varying amounts of warm tilt depending on setup, solid technical performance probably somewhere above Auteur and at the same level or slightly below Verite. Had some weirdness in the highs with BE2 and universe pads but switching to Auteur pads fixed most of this - see below for more info. Closest headphone I can think of that I've heard in the last year or two is the ETA Supra as I heard it at the last socal meet, but they aren't quite the same.
    ------------------------
    Longer version:
    Met up with @ChaChaRealSmooth for a cigar and was surprised by a "new ZMF" text before I showed up.
    Chain was Qobuz > Yggdrasil GS > Starlett. Close enough to my normal chain of Qobuz > pi2aes > Holo Spring 2 or Yggdrasil A2 > Stellaris that I suspect I'll get similar results on my chain. [[EDIT 4/4/22: WRONG, amp made a bigger difference than expected, see post #95] Unfortunately his EC UL blew tubes the day but I suspect that amp would play very well with this headphone based on what I heard with the dynamics.

    Only 3 complaints and I suspect all 3 are pretty related. These are guesstimates from before the measurements were released but after seeing them, I agree with Zach and Purrin that the posted measurements don't quite match what I heard but there is definitely "something" going on in that region (as much of the conversation in the thread so far seems to point at).
    1) I listened first with Universe and BE2 pads (stock pads?) and there was a weird unevenness in the highs between about 8-9khz and up to about 12khz or so. It sounded like a lot of small peaks and dips within a larger dip.
    2) Cymbals in different genres of music consistently sounded like they were very distant stage-wise (likely because a lot of energy in cymbals is around 8-12khz).
    3) Instruments with a lot of energy focused in the highs (think upper violin or piano octaves, some wind instruments, cymbals, etc.) in addition to the uneven-ness had some odd timbre. They sounded like facsimiles of a recording of whatever instrument rather than the actual instrument.

    Pads: However, upon switching to Auteur pads, most of the 3 above issues were actually cut in half or more, #3 was drastically reduced to my ears. Funny because it sounded like Auteur pads would have actually made the headphone "measure worse" in FR and CSD plots but everything just sounded way more correct. Random note - chacha showed me an easy way to roll pads quickly.

    Lows: Really full and "a lot" with Be2 and Universe pads. Definitely boosted but more to my liking with Autuer pads.
    Mids: The full rich euphoric sound I mention above.
    Transients: If 0 is super slow and 10 is super fast, the leading edge sounded like it would be a 3.5. Everything else sounded normal and correct - nothing overshoots (think Utopia) or undershoots. This actually works very well with the overall sound signature of the headphone though. Busy music was no problem and these never sounded congested (as some darker headphones can end up doing).
    Headstage: Fine, didn't think about it a single time until chacha asked me at the end.
    Technicalities: Better than Auteur as mentioned above. These don't get buried or lost in the strong dynamics and rich sound of the headphone which is really nice (I have often wondered if this is why the Utopia has to have a slightly thinner and more neutral to slightly astringent sound).
    Other aspects of the sound are described above. FWIW, no, this headphone does not sound like an Auteur even though both are "noticeably ZMF".

    I didn't get to try the different mesh mentioned above but I agree with the above about switching to a more open mesh upon release. I may roll the woods too but obviously this is very much personal preference.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
  17. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    Interesting impressions from @penguins. I too agree that ETA’s Supra is very zmf-like - reminded me most of auteur, IMO, with the somewhat rounded transients, sense of tonal richness and texture in the bass, though it was a bit cleaner and cleaner sounding overall (with the loss, perhaps, of some of the magic that cup resonance brings).

    I do wonder about how the atrium really compares to the Auteur, given that they both have a biocellulose driver and are both described as attempts at “zmf neutral” tonality. The auteur was one of my favorite headphones, and I’m curious about what the most prominent differences are between these two headphones, not so much in the sense of “x does z better than q”, but more in their overall presentation of sound. Besides the superior technicalities of the atrium, what I’ve gathered so far from the impressions here is that it has (compared to auteur)...

    -More sense of slam and excursion in the bass.
    -Somewhat more forceful and less rounded transients
    -A bit more muted upper mids and upper treble
    -Somewhat better sense of openness

    Anyone else want to chime in on this who has actually heard these two headphones? I am curious what others think about the treble issues that @penguins has mentioned. No zmf’s I’ve heard besides (maybe) Verite were remotely fatiguing or unnatural in that region, so it would be quite surprising to me if this impression about the peakiness of the Atrium’s treble was broadly shared (though it would certainly be possible!).
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022
  18. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    A big reason for the difference pad choices we offer is to try to cater to each persons different HRTF. We've spent a lot of time in this thread talking about the front damping, and how it correlates to the enjoyment of a headphone. Heck, you can even see wide variance between our 30K USD HATS unit and our 12K USD 7108 45CA type coupler (shown earlier in this thread). The 30K unit is supposed to be more accurate in this region and that's why it's more expensive, yet not everyone hears it the way it measures (which was the whole point of @purr1n's post.)

    So anyways, trying to find "broadly shared" opinions from a headphone that's not released yet, which has a myriad of options related to HRTF is going to a witch hunt without a witch. You'll probably have to deduct your own narrative from specific opinions from a somewhat narrow pool, which I know can be tough. Hopefully you get to hear the Atrium at some point and see what combo you enjoy!

    EDIT: The unit I sent to @ChaChaRealSmooth will be going on tour at some point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022
  19. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Completely agree with this decision by ZMF and am actually quite happy they go through the headache and hassle of managing this and offering this even though I know many people do not like to pad roll. It's both something I wish more other mfg would do and it's also something I think that shows "labor of love" with ZMF. Also note that although I express strong preference for Auteur pads above, there are no definitively correct answers here per se.

    For those wondering:
    Between the 3 pads I tried, Auteur made instruments more natural to me but did take away some of the overall "signature" euphoric sound (was still enough for me to enjoy though), slightly reduced dynamics in the lower octaves (also still a lot) and also took away some of the "fill" in this region, and generally slightly diminished the overall signature that makes the Atrium what it is and so fun to listen to. Again, still more than enough of the sauce was left for me to really enjoy the headphone. However, the perceived weirdness in the cymbals bothered me more than "more sauce" pleased me so this was a good tradeoff for me. Of course, like all other ZMF pads on SBAF, preferences will vary.

    To help frame my perspective for other people, I prefer Universe Perf Hybrid pads on my bocote Autuer. This is after buying about 4 different pairs of ZMF pads in addition to stock pads as well as adapting 1 or 2 pads from other manufacturers to work with the Auteur.

    To clarify, although there is "unevenness" in the treble for me, the sound quality of the treble that's there is still very good. Somewhat like the SR1a with bass - it didn't have a lot of bass and it rolled off pretty early, but the quality of the bass that it did have was very good. However, here it isn't a quantity or roll-off issue per se.

    Also, the treble is also not fatiguing or sibilant, etc. at all. There are some peaks in the region yes and bluntly put, a graph of the FR of the Atrium may look slightly terrifying to some, but as someone who can't stand most treble heavy headphones like the HD800/s (which IIRC is also very uneven and peaky in the treble), the Atrium did not fatigue or bother me at all.

    If I were to make a very brief comparison vs the Autuer - to me my Auteur is more of a drier, smoother, organic sound that in some ways is HD600 and HD650-like where it isn't super energetic, even with an extremely energetic amp. The Atrium is not dry and more of a dynamic rich energetic sound.
     
  20. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    Perfect description - I can imagine exactly what this sounds like relative to my Cocobolo Auteur. Now I just need to get on the loaner tour to see if the picture in my head matches the reality of my ears.
     

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