Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

I wondered the same thing but after reading a few comments in the balanced thread I'm thinking maybe because due to its design you compromise on performance unless you commit a little more $$$ to use its balanced input AND especially output.

 

There's gotta be some members here with the mj2, Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil, and hd650s... Right?

 

I plan not to because i know my weakness. This may sound strange but part reason i

I have two iPads and I can't go beyond the 2/3rd point on the volume mark before feeling irresponsible.

 

The vocals on the 650s are just right.
I also own a pair of HE-400is and I always found them to represent vocals with a bit of a "metallic" feel to them, if that makes sense.

You know, this might be a difficult/redundant exercise but what about adding system synergies to the Leaderboard/advice pages?

 

I hear the slightly grainy/tizzy treble thing on HD650 as well. It's really the only complaint I have with the headphone.

To be honest "clean, flat and smooth mids/treble" is now my #1 priority when selecting a transducer. It seems to be the hardest thing to get right and the list of otherwise great headphones that have a major mid/treble issue is very long indeed....

 

For sure, EC or DNA tube amp is definitely next step for me. Retire Rag to speaker/pre-amp

 

Has anyone heard HD650 on the Liquid Carbon yet?

 

The frequency response curves for the HD650 always looked the flattest to me in comparison to other phones based on measurements done on SBAF and Changstar.

 

Question for those of you using Sonarworks Ref 3 VST w/ HD650 profile... What settings are you finding work best for your preference?

I love the general tonality of the HD650 and I'm not looking to change much of the mids or highs, really all I want is more extended sub-bass without it sounding super boomy. The problem I'm running into with the Sonarworks settings is that it seems like any time I push up <100Hz by any more than 1-2 dB, it seems to get a bit boomy.

So far the best results I've gotten (for my preferences) has been to use the "custom" correction setting, with +6 dB of bass boost, BUT keep the Wetness around 40 or less. The low Wetness with this setting creates a curve that stays mostly linear to stock above 100 Hz, but adds a few dB (less than +6) of bass below.

Still playing around with it, I'll post more detailed info once I have it more dialed in. Just curious if anybody else had suggestions.

-RW

 

+6dB bass boost...

Okay sorry, that wasn't helpful.

What amp are you using? Better to just stick with about 80-100 wetness and bass boost left at 0 or 1 for extra bass, and tilt at 4 to retain some of that darkness. Have you tried using the different filters?

 

Yep - I've been listening to SN#35 for the past couple weeks off my modded HD650 and PM-3s.

Short Answer: Fantastic combo, buy it while it's available. This thing should have been priced from $1300-1500, and this is coming from a used gear buying penny pinching financial tight ass. Depending on your tastes, you might not need anything more.

Slightly longer answer: the LC has an extremely wide stage, and that helps the HD650 which is can have a pretty narrow soundstage width. It has excellent detail, which takes advantage of the solid resolving capability of the HD650 (which a lot of people still don't seem to realize that it has). To provide a point of reference, I'd say that the LC is less detailed than a not-china-mass-made Krell Klone, GSX mkII or a Ragnarok, but more detailed than the Mjolnir 2 with LISST or a Valhalla 2.

I moved from a Gungnir Multibit to a Gamma2 (with ASRC not-bypassed) at my desk a few days ago and the HD650/LC combo definitely let me hear just how much detail I lost. I even tried switching to digital filter C to claw a little of it back and then died a little inside.

Despite being detailed, the LC's background doesn't seem quite as black as other TOTL amps I've heard. It's not grey or fuzzy enough to be hazy or veiled or anything, but if you're splitting hairs it's there. I'd bet that the LC has a higher noise floor relative to other high end amps, but I lack adequately sensitive headphones or measurement instruments to put that to the test. I suspect that Cavalli's custom designed SMPS + the small size of the amp is to blame for the hint of greyness. You could hear it more with the HD650 than you could with the PM-3, T50rp MkIII, or HiFiMan HE-400S. A separate independent PS unit would probably clean this right up.

The amp has good extension in both directions, no out of place bass or treble emphasis, but it is slightly euphonic sounding. Tastefully euphonic. That really helps the LC not sound "solid state" (the harshness or thinness of "solid state done wrong") and really does a great job making the amp the single least fatiguing solid state amp I've enjoyed (read: that doesn't sound like syrupy or boring shit). The euphonic coloration gives the sound a sense of weight or body that's missing in a lot of solid state amps.

The defining characteristic of the LC: its killer macrodynamics. Combined with a wide stage-width, the LC's impact on the right can make instrument entrances from the left and right of the stage come out of nowhere to startle you. The horns man, the horns. This thing is punchy as f**k. Just the other night, I was expecting the guitar on Dio's "Holy Diver" at 1:21-1:22 and it still managed startle me. Anyone who thinks that the HD650 is polite, boring, or otherwise dull just needs to plug it into the LC and find out otherwise.

 

Thanks for the impressions. Out of interest, are you running your HD650 balanced or SE?

Also, do you still have your modded HD800? What are your impressions of it with the LC??

 

Balanced with the HD650, single ended with the rest (PM-3, T50rp MkIII, HE-400S).

The Bill-P modded HD800s are arriving this weekend (today or tomorrow). There was a shipping snafu so they didn't arrive last weekend as planned. I should get some time in with it this weekend and early next week.

 

Thank you for that impressions, really apreciate that. You write alot of stuff that won't be "available" on head-fi so thumbs up. I actually already have ordered the LC long time ago I was just being curious What DAC were you using and did you use balanced cables for HD650?
Hope it's gonna pair great with Audio-gd DAC 19. I think it's gonna be a while before I upgrade anything in my system after this, except for headphones maybe. If Sennheiser can stop being lazy that is.

Have you heard any of the other amplifiers from Cavalli? Wonder how it compares to them. But I'm sure it's a bargain at the price, eventhough I have to pay VAT on top of it because I live in Europe.

 

I used a 4pin XLR reterminated HD650 cable (nothing fancy, the stock HD650 cable is already very good - just needs the right termination).

As far as DACs go, I used the Schiit Gungnir Multibit, AMB Gamma2, and the single ended out from a Geek Out V2 Infinity (didn't have a TRRS to 2x 3pin XLR interconnect handy).

The DAC-19 10th Anniversary edition will be a very solid pairing (it's all about that DSP in the 10th anniversary edition). IMO, you can't go wrong pairing the LC with the Yggdrasil, Gungnir Multibit, Bifrost Multibit, or DAC-19th 10th Anni. Any of those will pair well.

After hearing it with the V2 Infinity, I wouldn't pair a V2/V2+ regular, infinity, or Geek Pulse Infinity with the Liquid Carbon, except maybe with an unmodded HD800, HE-560, or un-EQ'd Ether. LH's ESS 9018AQ2M based DACs are all extremely pleasant, very listenable DACs - but that's the problem, as the LC's euphonic coloration doesn't mesh well with that sig. The 9018AQ2M-based LH DACs need something more incisive if you have a headphone without upper midrange or treble bite.

 

EDIT: Well, shit. In the time it took me to crank out this tome, Austin has answered all of the questions. Still...

Why, that is my exact set up! Now to respond to the earlier posts...

The general reasoning is this:
1) The Valhalla 2 is only $350 brand new, and is a PHENOMENAL amp. I never really enjoyed toobs until I owned the Val2, and I suspect it was because I hadn't ever heard tubes done so well (primarily due to cost). Case in point: your description of the Val2 as "a bit dry sounding," as opposed to what a lot of shitty tube amps get very wrong, sounding "wet" or "syrupy". That can be nice, but it really distracts when done poorly. The implementation on Val2 is impressive.
2) By comparison the Mjolnir 2 is $850 + $70 if you want the solid state tubes. Is it a more capable amp? Hell yes, in many ways. But I can assure you the cost delta is squarely in the advanced stages of diminishing returns.
3) Once you are at the level of considering Mj2 and Black Widow, BW is easier to recommend for several convenience factors. I have not heard it myself, but I understand the reviews from those ears I trust. It provides what most people like with the Senns and is less complicated than the Mj2: no tube holes, no balanced ins, no pre-outs, etc. For me, I wanted/needed those options, so the BW doesn't fit the bill; Mj2 does.
4) Another consideration is simply psychological: someone who has already shelled out for Yggdrasil/Gungnir Multibit is more willing to step past the only-almost-a-thousand-dollars Mj2, squarely into the four-figure range of ragnarok, and the many glorious amps that eddy current offer.

Either way Mjolnir 2 is a fabulous amp, and its sounds great with the HD6x0.

I can't speak to using different inputs with Mj2, as I have only had Gungnir MB with it (and have been complacent about comparing something like GO450 > Mj2). BUT, do not believe that the SE out on Mj2 is worse than something like Val2 or Asgard 2, simply because the SE is not as awesome as the balanced out. Circlotron is awesome balanced implementation, and is audibly better than the SE, but the SE is still very very good.

That said, would I recommend Mj2 to someone who has no intention of ever trying balanced? Probably not. Would I recommend it to someone who already has a Gungnir Multibit? f**k yes!

(But what about the person who owns a Gungnir Multibit, owns an HD600/650/800, has more than the money required to get a Mj2 and kind of wants one, but is afraid to buy a $8 4-pin XLR, a nice-ish $50 soldering iron, and reterminate their cable to balanced? I would physically strike that person, or chide them over the internet.)

 

Great information. Now I just need to get me a balanced cable for HD650 and wait for the Liquid Carbon to arrive. Santa please?

I hope I'm not going too off-topic with this but what is DSP?