Adventures in Downgrading

yotacowboy · Apr 5, 2024

purr1n said: ↑

Indeed what is important is what tastes best to someone. However we do have standards and will draw lines in in the sand. Not having standards or a framework or what is good or bad results in everything being good. This is not what SBAF is about.

Well done steak is not acceptable.

Neither are ice cubes in a good whiskey, bourbon, or scotch.

I got so Fing pissed off when a waiter who took my drink order assumed I wanted my bourbon with ice cubes in it. Maybe it's a south Texas thing.
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Re: the steak, both the chefs and other critics are right, and the lone food critic is also right.

The chefs and other critics agree upon a standard of shared, cross cultural, culinary preferences, and a medium rare steak represents that.

The lone food critic has an individual preference for burned meat that doesn't align with that standard cultural culinary preference, and that's okay. But its not "good".

Sometimes I like eating Totino's frozen pepperoni pizza with a drizzle of yellow mustard, but I'd hardly try to convince anyone else to try it, or even suppose that it's "good".

Erroneous · Apr 4, 2024

Blue rare fo lyfe. Y'all can keep your medium rare, just walk mine through a warm room and call it good.

atomicbob · Apr 4, 2024

purr1n said: ↑

Neither are ice cubes in a good whiskey, bourbon, or scotch.

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"I can't imagine why anyone would ruin good whiskey by putting ice in it" - Dr. Watson, Pursuit to Algiers, 1945

purr1n · Apr 5, 2024

Eric Rosenfield said: ↑

It’s weird because much of what I heard about SMSL before trying their stuff is that they’re the same generic, measurement chasing Chi-Fi as Topping, and their stuff sounds harsh and clinical. And yet that hasn’t been my experience with the two SMSL DACs I’ve tried. The D2R is anything but harsh and clinical.
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I think that depends. SMSL probably got that reputation because they made a lot of those patented feed-forward (nonsense really) THX designs and ESS or maybe the higher-end AKM chip DACs. Topology and parts have a sound.

Svadhyaya · Apr 13, 2024

Eric Rosenfield said: ↑

Probably the last post in this thread from me, as I actually succeeded in "Downgrading" for once and it closes the loop on this conversation.

As usual, my methods are as scientific as a toddler trying to determine the best tasting mud in the garden.

So I got the Halo Cyan 2 in January and enjoyed it. Sounded amazing, depth and soundstage for days, texture and detail, and dead neutral sounding (though less "fun" and "tubey" than the BF2). Enjoyed playing with it with HQ Player and seemed to enjoy DSD better than PCM even though that's not the consensus. Did get a Matrix X-SDIF 3 DDC because I didn't want to deal with streaming AirPlay anymore or trying to find something to do NAA, and despite the galvanic isolation of the USB input on the Cyan 2 I noticed an improvement by adding the DDC and going from it to the Cyan 2 via I2S.

After CanJam I bought a HeadAmp GS-X Mini (shocked that I preferred it to the Schiit Mjolnir 3 at CanJam as I talked about in another thread) and then was surprised that at home it sounded harsh in a way that it didn’t at CanJam. I chalk this up to HeadAmp at CanJam using a Brooklyn Bridge 2 DAC with it, a DAC that on its own sounded oversmoothed and plasticky while with the GS-X Mini it sounded perfect. (Also CanJam just isn’t the best place to evaluate gear, is it?) Anyway, it made me think there was something that might be improved in the smoothness of my DAC. So after some research I decided to try two DACs I liked at CanJam for their smoothness which I would get on an easily returnable basis—the SMSL VMV D2R and the iFi iDSD Neo.

But to make a long story short on the DACs, the iDSD Neo sounded good but not nearly as good as either the Cyan 2 or the D2R (losing out significantly on stage and depth) and surprised me by sounding distinctly bright in comparison contrary to its reputation. The Neo does have great features though with the built-in head-amp. It also has the ability to play DSD direct, unlike the D2R, which means I can use properly it with HQ Player.

The D2R was a much more interesting case though. Because the Cyan 2 is “better”. Like the D2R is big and deep and wide, but the Cyan 2 is bigger and deeper and wider, and there’s more detail and texture, and it’s definitely more neutral. It’s just more impressive. It was illustrative hooking both the D2R and the Cyan 2 up to the two inputs on the Pendant and volume matching and switching between them. This illustrated not only how similar DACs sound when volume matched (especially in the first second or two before your brain adjusts a bit, like it seems like very rapid A/B switching could convince anyone that all DACs sound the same while if you just listen for a bit you can clearly hear differences). But also underlined for me the differences. The Cyan 2 is more impressive, you switch over to it and you think “wow” because things open up a bit and is less relaxed. But the thing I realized was that after a while I was noticing fatigue and feeling the urge to switch back to the D2R. And this would happen every time after a while.

The VMV D2R is just the least bothersome, least fatiguing, smoothest (without being oversmoothed and plasticky) DAC I think I’ve ever heard. It’s just comfortable. And it has a warmth and fullness that the Cyan 2, with its strict neutrality, doesn’t have. (Moreso when both RCA and XLR outputs are set to on rather than one or the other, which apparently changes the output impedance, though the difference is very small.) The Cyan 2 is better, but I enjoy the D2R more. And since the D2R (which I got on sale) is much less than the Cyan 2, it’s technically a successful downgrade!

The DACs didn’t fix the GS-X Mini enough for me and I ended up replacing it with the much cheaper Aune S17 Pro which is honestly pretty great, it’s basically has that big, warm, class A sound that I liked from the RebelAmp but is an improvement in every respect, particularly in soundstage. And since the S17 Pro is less than half the cost of the GS-X Mini, this is a successful downgrade as well (though I actually got the GS-X Mini used for not that much more than the S17 Pro new). When I started listening to the S17 Pro, I was like “maybe I don’t need the annoying tube preamp anymore, this is great!” but then I turned the Pendant on again and was like “no, tubes are better”. Tubes are just better, it’s very annoying.

I decided to put the iDSD Neo in my living room for now (replacing the SMSL SU-8) though I’m considering trying downgrading it to the SMSL D300 which has the same chip as the D2R because I like that so much. The Cyan 2 was too big for the living room and not worth it for that use case, so it’s sold. (And sold quick—like 10 minutes after I listed it, fasted sale I ever made!)

It’s true I can’t use HQPlayer with the D2R and HQPlayer is amazing, but on the other han it takes away another source of nervosa, as well as the complication of dealing with HQ Player, which never got along well with the X-SPDIF 3, introduced lag so I had to turn it off when doing meetings, and sometimes didn’t function at all without a restart, and other minor annoyances. (Also of course the higher end settings would noticeably slow down my Mac when trying to do something processor-intensive.) Maybe simpler is better even if it’s not chasing after every last ounce of sound quality.

It’s weird because much of what I heard about SMSL before trying their stuff is that they’re the same generic, measurement chasing Chi-Fi as Topping, and their stuff sounds harsh and clinical. And yet that hasn’t been my experience with the two SMSL DACs I’ve tried. The D2R is anything but harsh and clinical.

I often think about an article a read a long time ago by a food critic who liked well-done steak. And being a food critic, he met a lot of chefs and other critics who told him that well-done steak was crap, that it ruined the flavor of the steak and was a crime against beef. But it didn’t matter. Well-done steak was what tasted best to him.

Now, I’m not saying the D2R is as reviled by culinary professionals as well-done steak. I think it holds up reasonably well against other DACs in the price category. But I kind of understand why it’s not a “meme” DAC, I can definitely see people thinking of it as boring in comparison to the BF2, iDSD Neo, or the Cyan 2. It sounds amazing but it doesn’t “show off” in the same way. And yet it’s the DAC I want to listen to.
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Thanks for this whole thread. I'm likewise looking for a chain that stays comfortable no matter what, and I was equally amazed at how satisfying it is to hear gear that achieves that smoothness. I'd rather be embraced by the sound than squeezed to death

atomicbob · Apr 15, 2024

My adventure in "downgrading" includes Holo Audio Cyan 2, Schiit Vali 3 with GE Jan5670W tubes and HD6x0 headphones. So far, so good. Another update pending.

Adventures in Downgrading

yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

Erroneous Friend

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purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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Adventures in Downgrading

yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

Erroneous Friend

atomicbob dScope Yoda

purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

Svadhyaya New

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