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Audio-GD R2R 11

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by dropadred, Nov 5, 2017.

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  1. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    That is a very reasonable question. I just think that maybe since the DDC measures very well the experience can be applied to his DAC as well because rereading the old discussion seems that not only their old DAC measured bad it also didn't sound good subjectively.

    The internals also look very different now although we don't know yet how it applies to the sound.
     
    JeremiahS, Aug 23, 2022
    #101
  2. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    From the outside they may look similar but a DDC and DAC are very different animals on the inside. DDC performance is driven primarily by the source clocks and the noise levels of the internal regulators. PCB Layout plays a part as well, but that is easy to achieve. A DDC is not much more than a fancy shift register that takes the Audio Data Stream and sends it in an encoded format. It actually takes some effort (or extreme penny pinching) to F**K up a DDC!

    A DAC on the other hands is extremely sensitive to everything! Including but not limited to:
    1. Clock Jitter
    2. Electrical noise on the input interface
    3. The digital filtering built into the dac, Oversampling, Non-Oversampling, Brick Wall, etc
    4. Any, and I do many, noise on the regulators that supply the DAC Analog Rails goes direct to the output
    5. The DAC topology ie Switched Capacitor, Delta-Sigma, R2R, etc
    6. The output circuitry that converts the DAC low level current or voltage and performs filtering
    7. The ground plane quality and topology on the PCB
    8. So on and so forth :eek:

    A DDC is like making a golf cart, while a DAC is more like a Ferarri.

    Just my thoughts!
     
    Michael Kelly, Aug 23, 2022
    #102
  3. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    said by a guy that makes DDC's... so you can take that quote to the bank.:eek::D
     
    dasman66, Aug 23, 2022
    #103
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I've used the A-GD DI20HE as a source to the DACs that needed good DDCs such as the Sonnet Pasadena and compared it to other solutions. TBH, it didn't blow my socks off. I did feel it was a bit colored, not in a bad way. I actually preferred the pi2AES with RJ45 i2s output to the Sonnet DAC. Different transfer mechanisms though: SPDIF vs. i2s. And ultimately different sound.

    Now respect to measurebator-ments, not sure if solid numbers with respect to pico-seconds (or AmirNads, GONAD, SINAD, etc.) is the best way to assess awesomeness. Note AGD has betterer numbers (ps), but more hashy graSSY crap in the ultrasonic region.

    The AGD Has lowerer picoseconds jitter than the pi2AES, but more often than not from what I've seen, it's the nature of the jitter that matters more.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Moral of the story: I'm not sure the AGD measures "extremely well" at all. And here's the kicker: AES on the pi2AES is almost always slightly better sounding than the SODIF, but it measures x8 worse on the pico-second meter than the SPDIF output.

    [​IMG]

    Moral of the story part two: these measurements may not mean anything with respect to sound quality.
     
    purr1n, Aug 23, 2022
    #104
  5. ReMow

    ReMow New

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    To add, I've had both entry and totl audio-gd.

    I found that the original r2r11 was extremely fatiguing I don't know what it had, but I couldn't listen to my LCD-3F for more than 30 minutes and not even loud, I don't know what was wrong with it. This didn't happen out of my master-8 head/pre amp.

    The PSU they used in the r2r11 isn't the r-core they use in better equipment. I had the DI-2014 that used that same PSU and it burned, even threw smoke out and all. The r2r11 stopped working, no clue why, but I suspect it's the same problem with the PSU.

    Overall it had an interesting tonality, but not neutral, bass bloat, mids were too muddy and it lacked details, it had loads of distorsion (subjetive observations).
     
    ReMow, Nov 27, 2023
    #105
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