Focal Elear and Utopia

I haven't man, sorry! Fwiw, I find the cables really well made and high quality despite the grumblings about their weight/length. Tangential, but I had norne draug cables with my hd800 and slants at one point. They were beautiful and felt great, but in the cold hard light of day, didn't affect the sound in any perceptible way to me over the stock cables. Maybe the guy with the balanced cables is noticing the effect of going balanced, more so than anything about the cable itself? I'm highly skeptical of "improvement in every which way" resulting from a headphone cable. In short, my brief headphone cable adventures turned me into a temporary nonbeliever. Other mods to the elear do make a very perceptible difference, but haven't done the same mods to the utopia because I don't really feel that it needs them at this point, but I'd be curious what folks like hands or bill would do to utopias...

 

Had opportunity to audition both Elear and Utopia some time ago. Spent around 20 or so minutes with them, so these are just first impressions... For me that was enough to forget about both of these though, but YMMV.

(Disclaimer: source was a Naim DAC-V1, which is known to have a "hyped" sound that probably does no favors to these headphones, so keep that in mind especially concerning the slightly harsh treble)

Utopia:

+ Good resolution, but to my ears the HD800 is still ahead
+ Fairly flat tonality, no midrange dip (this however reduces the "listenable music" percentage so this can be a minus point too)
+ Very fast drivers, possibly the fastest on the market
+ Good build quality
+ Superb bass in both quantity and quality
+ Doesn´t do anything particularly wrong, a rare trait in flagships (classic era headphones don´t have this problem)
+ Midrange almost on the same level as HD800
+ Does not require that much from amplification, ran pretty well out of a midrange DAC/amp
- Very overpriced for what they offer, a solid price for them considering the competition would be 1500e (maybe 2000e max)
- Small and claustrophobic soundstage compared to HD800, less precise imaging too
- Far worse comfort vs. HD800, bulky and heavy (for me this would be a dealbreaker already at 1500e; Elear is more comfortable)
- Highs a little harsh (= uneven), HD800S is much smoother
- Horrible cable, stiff and heavy
= Overall to me another example of what is wrong with this new trend of mega expensive headphones. Another hype train "flavor of the month" just like when the Audeze LCD-2 was released. In an alternate world where these would have been released at equal price to HD 800 S these would have been an interesting product. I find these a sidegrade to the HD800/S, not a clear upgrade. That being said, I guess these belong to the audio jewelry market which I am not interested in. Disclaimer: I can´t take the LCD-4, Abyss, HE-1000 etc. seriously either.

Elear:

+ Solid price to performance ratio
+ Warm tonality leads to a wide genre bandwith
+ Fairly comfortable and much lighter than the Utopia (better weight distribution too)
+ Bass performance, goes a lot deeper than HD800S and the bass is clean too
+ Overall sound quality on the same level as Utopia
+ Fast drivers just like on Utopia
+ Easy to amplify just like Utopia
+ If you are into dark headphones I think this will be "the one" for many, assuming you don´t...
- Mind the upper midrange dip. To me this is a dealbreaker. You always have the sensation of wanting to increase volume. While I understand the rationale behind this tuning, I would have preferred a HD 650 style gentle treble roll off instead, especially considering...
- The treble is a little harsh (uneven), HD800S is much smoother
- Poor soundstage, very claustrophobic (worse than on Utopia)
- Horrible cable, stiff and heavy
= Good entry into the high end headphone market, but at the same time a missed opportunity due to the upper midrange dip. With a different kind of tuning these might have actually been the super HD 650, but unfortunately the HD 650 once again remains unbeaten in tonality and overall cohesion of sound. Yet still this is the clear star of the two. These will find their place among the classics.

 

This is really refreshing after all the shilling ive been exposed to on the other site. Thanks!

You should post this in the main HF thread to show them what unbiased honest impressions look like.

 

I´d probably be flamed to oblivion by all the new Elear/Utopia owners still in the honeymoon phase. The funny thing with these new Focals is that I went in ready to order the Elear (Utopia at 4k no way even if it sounded as good as the hype claimed). Everything I had read about them was promising. Took me about 10 seconds to hear something was wrong. I was listening to a Depeche Mode album and instantly noticed that this was not how Gahan is supposed to sound. Midrange is the most important frequency there is and if you mess that up, well, to me you have failed product.

What is now happening with the Elear/Utopia is the Audeze LCD-2 phenomenon all over again. The hype train is now in full swing and has distanced itself from reality, but eventually there will be a backlash even on Head-Fi. I predict it will happen in around 6 months from now. Just like when people eventually noticed the LCD-2 is a huge downgrade in many aspects from the HD800 (and even HD 650), not to mention you can´t actually wear the thing for over 15 minutes without being in pain. The Elear with the midrange dip and very low distortion is the perfect hearing damage creation machine: the high volume won´t hurt because it´s so clean, but no matter how high you go you want to go higher for that missing upper midrange to appear. All voices sound "off" and there´s no way to fix them. The much hyped dynamism ("piano keys attack like a million volts!") is simply abnormally high listening volume.

Utopia on the other hand... Out of the megabuck (2k+) headphones I´ve only heard the HiFiMaN HE-1000. I´d never buy it (that´s another long story), but subjectively it sounds pretty good actually. That being said, I knew what HiFiMaN was doing with the almost comical pricing. This time prior to listening I even believed the hype a bit: maybe this is the next generation? I couldn´t help myself, first impression was pretty much "what the hell, this can´t be it?" Complete joke at 4k. I don´t understand how even Innerfidelity (Tyll is one of the sources in this hobby that I respect and admire a lot) went all in with the hype.

At this point I´ve given up hope that a non-Sennheiser company will "get" what makes the HD 650 so good. There have been plenty of imitations throughout the years, but all have missed the mark. If a HD 650 successor someday arrives it will come from Sennheiser themselves. The lead designer, Axel Grell, is still there and the HD 650 continues to sell very well. The HD 700 on the other hand is clearly failing commercially and critically (it currently costs 50 euros more than a HD 650 in Europe), so my guess is that they will pull it off the market in a year or so and replace it with radically retuned HD 750.

EDIT: posted those impressions on Head-Fi as well and to my surprise the reception wasn´t all that negative. It looks like I was wrong, maybe this phenomenon isn´t as bad as the Audeze LCD-2 release (the hype for that was off the charts back in the day) after all.

 

pretty big statements for a 10 min session from a mid range set up......

 

YMMV, but that was my honest impressions. I´m sure many will strongly disagree and that´s fine. I don´t think you generally need to audition for hours, it rarely changes things much in my experience. Usually just reinforces the first impressions. The general strengths and weaknesses are apparent very quickly if you know what you like in audio.

Neither the Elear or the Utopia have a specific issue like the HD 800 treble spike that needs especially well matching electronics. The source I listened to the Focals with was a Naim DAC fed by a CD transport.

 

It could definitely have been the Naim DAC. I haven´t liked Naim gear much usually, they have an artificially hyped sound in my experience. Very good if you are into that tonality, but I´m not. So it´s possible it was making the highs worse and constricting the soundstage. Even though I disliked the Elear tuning, I think it´s overall a solid entry to the high end market. As for the Utopia I´m philosophically strongly opposed to this new trend of 3k+ headphones. A product to cost 4k would have to be on a whole different level than the HD800(S), not a sidegrade. I did like their sound more than the Elear though and If I had a larger head the comfort would probably be good too. While the Elear was perfect for my head, the Utopia felt a bit loose on the smallest size option.

In the end with audio the only thing that really matters is what you personally like. You´ll find completely opposing views on any product. There are a lot of Grado fans out there that feel all other headphones are flawed and that´s fine. Whatever floats one´s boat. It all depends on what you value. If bass performance is paramount for example I´m sure for that person the Elear and Utopia are miles beyond the HD800 (especially the S version). Soundstage is also so subjective, one person´s claustrophobic is intimate and involving to someone else.

 

I was planning to buy Elear unheard, but ive gotten more and more sceptical, especially with the issues some have experienced.
HEX V2 seems rather interesting tho

 

All flagships are severely flawed in some ways. There are so few headphones that are solid all rounders, I guess that´s why the HD600/650 have such a cult following. Definitely audition before buying. They may be perfect for you, but if you enjoy the HD6X0 tonality they are quite different. A solid HD 650 upgrade simply doesn´t exist if you ask me.

 

@Vorlon I hear you wrt the wonky midrange on the Elear. Otherwise (well, add the somewhat harsh treble to that), it is a very clean, clear and pleasant sound. I highly recommend checking out the Elear thread on the Headphone Measurement section. The biggest culprit to the wonky upper-midrange dip of the Elear seem to be the shit pads they used, since swapping them out for a HM5 or Alpha pad or Zmf pad seems to largely fix that particular issue. If the treble remains bothersome, I know folks like Hands have used front dampening to help smooth that out. I only tried the pad swap and found it did a lot for the headphone. I never messed with front dampening because I worried about dampening the sound too much but I bet these drivers could punch through that ok.

As far as the Utopias are concerned, I think their greatest strength is to not suck egregiously at any 1 thing (which is more than the hd800 could say with its piercing 6khz peak). Obviously the pricing is still all wrong, following a shitty escalating trend in the headphone world. But, imagine an alternate universe where instead of costing 4k it cost 2-2.5k... Obviously we're not in that world (yet) but I think at 60% of the MSRP (dealers have to eat, apparently) they'd be worth the asking price. Another of Utopias strengths IMO is that they don't WOW your dick off in a brief listening session. Other headphones that blow your dick off in a few minutes might become a nuisance over longer periods. Instead their strengths reveal themselves over time and you just want to keep listening. Again that was my experience with them, and if they're not your cup of tea, then it wouldn't matter if they cost even 1k so it's totally moot. Regarding the amping comments, I think another of Utopias biggest strengths is that they sound good off less expensive gear, like a vali 2 and Modi Multibit. So if you didn't like them off of whatever chain you had at the store, I doubt that opinion would change drastically with a better chain (though it might).

 

I dont need a HD650 on roids.
I kinda miss my HE-6, but I dont want another pair of HE-6.
I want something with that clean planar bass and more speed

 

Good points... The treble, while not optimal, wasn´t a deal breaker to me in any way like it was on the Beyerdynamic T1 (2g). I could live with it. The small (compared to HD800) soundstage would take more time to adjust to, but that would eventually be ok too. Hopefully I´ll get the chance to someday listen to the Elears with different pads, would definitely be interesting. The midrange was the major issue, otherwise I would have bought them on the spot.

The alternative universe thing is what I think about the most actually. Just imagine if they would have launched the Utopia at 2k. That would have been a solid HD800S competitor (still a sidegrade in my opinion, but depends on preferences). The Elear tuning with the mids suckout, although not for me, is a pretty good idea for a lot of the general market. For what it´s worth the original HD800 unmodded to me is critically flawed too, even worse than the Elear with the treble spike of death making 75% of music unsuitable for listening. When you think about it it´s really odd how problematic flagship headphones are. I think it must simply be extremely difficult to make something technically better than the classic era flagships (600/650, K701 etc.) without making severe concessions somewhere else.

 

Utopias at 2K would have smashed the competition into oblivion rather than be a simple sidegrade. The HD800 and HD800S have such skrewed up tonality in the upper midrange that they are unlistenable to my ears. Audeze and Elear in stock mode are a true abomination for anything classical.

Utopias are very revealing of source and the Naim streamer that drives them at UK shows imparts harshness in the treble with occasional sibilance that disappears when properly driven by Yggdrasil,

 

I've had my Utopias for a couple months now, and while I really like them, I don't know that I love them, which is tough to swallow for 4k. I think I prefer my LCD-3s overall for most listening. my current rig is a Gungnir MB feeding a Schiit M2 with siemens/RCA gold pins. The stock NOS tubes that came with the M2 made the Utopias sound really dry and unengaging. once I dropped the Siemens/RCA tubes, everything changed for the better: sweeter, more refined treble w/ no spike to speak of, fuller midrange and tighter sounding (not more) bass. I've always liked the Schiit tube amps, but the stock tubes seriously hamper their sound. I should comment that this is with roughly 100 hours of use/burn in on the 'phones.
having owned a pair of HD650's, LCD-2s and 3s at various times, and Oppo pm-3s for my mobile rig, I think I generally prefer the "planar" sound overall when it comes to headphones. That being said, the Utopias are a pretty spectacular set of cans. While I think the bass quantity leaves a bit to be desired, the clarity and speed of these things are pretty fuckin' amazing. I'm a bit of a Rush superfan. on albums i've heard thousands of times, like Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves, both great sounding, well-mixed and mastered albums, there is a clarity and seperation between instruments that i've never heard before on any other headphones. The sound is less homogenized overall than on the LCD-3f which is arguably my favorite sound ever, partly due to the midrange magic that those headphones do so well. But again, the Utopia comes out on top in regards to ultimate clarity. In terms of soundstage I prefer the Audezes. Audeze isn't known for vast soundstaging, but they beat the Utopias in this regard, though that's probably my least important criteria in listening; if you want great soundstaging, just listen to speakers. Overall, beryllium drivers or not, I think the Utopias are overpriced for what they offer. They sound great, they just don't blow my socks off in regards to tonality. They do the speed/resolution thing really well, but I think they could use a little more emphasis in the upper-midrange (like many other top-tier headphones). I think These might be better as a mixing tool than for everyday listening pleasure (ala HD800). For reference, I'm running them balanced from the M2 through a Nordost Heimdall 2 (overpriced cable, but I thought I'd try it just once).

 

Noted. Currently using a Vali 2 out of a GOV2, with the green LED filter (the name escapes me, but it's the one that you advise using). Off the top of your head, would you recommend playing around with using the Vali 2 as a pre-amp for the Jotun, and try to double up on the benefits? Or just choose the best single solution to avoid introducing too many cogs in the machine? I seem to very much enjoy tube sound.

A quick search turns out the Sovek 6922's as being out of production, and costing around the $100 mark to get in Canada, so I'll probably have to do some research on comparable tubes for cheaper. If none are available for $100, and if the two solutions are considered more or less equal, I may just opt to sell the Vali 2 and go straight to the Jotun, since it'd be able to take advantage of the balanced outs on my GOV2 anyways.

Given that my hearing is relatively blown out for my age due to sitting infront of a brass section for half a decade, I don't know if the Elear's treble will even be a remote concern for me (given that I can stand the HD700s without any EQ when paired with the stock Vali tube, but still prefer to tone down the peaks slightly). Something that I'll have to evaluate when I have them on hand.

 

If you are ok with the HD700´s treble (even with tubes), I would guess you won´t have a problem with the Elear treble at all. It´s still far, far, far smoother and easier to listen to than the HD700.