Headphone Cables

Sorry if I am seemingly necroing this thread, but thought it an appropriate place to ask the brain trust -- has anyone here have experience with Audio Envy ToneKraft headphone cables? I just can't find much beyond the 15 reviews on their website that claim its the next coming of audio gods/parting the heavens/and bringing clarity and enlightenment to veiled systems. Any experience or insight is much appreciated.

 

I do not have experience with that company, but some of things I’m not thrilled about are,

· Technology page says they use “high velocity OCC” conductors. Most of their products state they use OCC, but it doesn’t say that on the headphone webpage.
· Say highly pure copper, but not specific grade (UP-OCC, 4N, 5N Etc).
· Doesn’t state what connectors they use for the headphone side, or plug side.

They have a 45 day trial, and a 30% restocking fee if I am reading that right.

They probably have a good product, but I think I would prefer to know more about what goes into the cable.

 

All I can say is Techflex on your headphone cables is less than ideal for ergonomics and comfort. And without any insight into geometry or verification of material quality (very few makers getting actual custom wire from legitimate factories) hard to say if value is there.

 

I haven't tried their headphone cables for the same reasons that @fraggler points out. Plus the color is awful for a headphone cable.. But I LOVE their interconnects. they do tweak them a bit with every batch though, and mine are from the last batch so I can't totally vouch for the new bath but I was told they were similar.

 

Exactly this....the kind of basic information I expect. They do try to explain some of the technology approach behind their voodoo, but nothing else.

Thank you - good to know about the Techflex. I feel the same, was looking for this kind of information, but they definitely appear to have a very non-traditional approach.

Thanks, I'm just hesitant because Audio Envy takes a different approach to their cables, and I have heard their interconnects are quite good. It's just a quite a bit to wrap my head around. But I mean I do find them interesting and intriguing. I was looking at Morrow Audio interconnects myself and they too take a different approach from the traditional design, and many like their cables too.

I definitely appreciate your feedback -- I think for now I am going to stick with the traditional route (Forza, Norne, Arctic Cables, etc.). At least the results will be more predictable and not so costly.

 

Their interconnects aren’t “voodoo” they are one of the few cable companies to actually list some measurements. And they clearly say OCC copper and even tell you what the jack is made of. I don’t know why their headphone cable isn’t the same but look at their RCA cable. Very few cable companies list the capacitance of their cables. Pangea won’t even tell you if you ask.

https://audioenvy.com/product/home-car-pro-interconnects/prestige/

That being said, Forza is a great choice

 

I know, and I apologize, I was being a bit facetious with the voodoo remark, I only meant "different" in this case. No lie, I can be a pretty sarcastic bastard.

I understand that all companies have their proprietary technologies and trade secrets, and I do appreciate their explanation of their approach about reducing capacitance as their cornerstone of their products while publishing that info publicly. I only meant that they really do take a unique approach to cable design. Audio Envy did pique my interest, as did Morrow Cables as both companies seem to center on using non-traditional designs (more scientific/engineering based) to success, especially with interconnects, which many seem to experience favorably.

They do have on their website a sample file which plays audio comparing their cable to a Mogami cable, and while to me, very close, there is a very slight and subtle difference that gives Audio Envy the edge. I suppose the question is whether or not that subtle difference to me is worth the bucks. While reducing capacitance values generally (at least in my opinion) does not (or should not) make much impact in short cable design (less than 10ft), as Audio Envy says...everything adds up, and their sample demo would lend some credence to that notion (to me).

 

Oh I wasn't offended or anything, I was just defending Audio Envy because they deserve credit for actually publishing measurements.

Capacitance does matter if you're using a transformer to convert balanced to SE from a DAC. You can only have so much cable capacitance after the transformer and its' not very much, so if you're using one of those you need either super short cable runs, like a couple feet or something, or you need low capacitance cables (and you still need short cable runs, but you can get away with longer cables after the transformer with cables that have as low a capacitance as the Audio Envy IC's.)

I only found like 6 cable companies that list capacitance. And Audio Envy's cables are the lowest out there. No that you need such low numbers, but I'm just saying.

I'd like to hear their headphone cable, but I really like Forza's OCC copper Claire HPC cables and there's just too much stuff to spend money on to keep trying headphone cables endlessly.

 

As said in a profile post already, I’m currently enjoying my new Forza Claire HPC Mk 2 cable a lot, and, especially compared to the stock cable that came with my Clear Mg (that I had mainly used for the HEDD2, too, because its stock cable is a little too short to listen comfortably on the couch), the differences are much larger than I had expected from previous experience. Yes, already then I heard a difference, but it was rather small.

Now that I tested a bit, it seems that the cable “behaviour” depends a lot on the headphone it is used with, too. I wouldn’t have expected that at all. Did you hear similar stuff with your cables and headphones?

On the HEDDphone Two, vs. Focal stock cable:

• Much better left/right channel separation, “night and day” style.
• As a result, much better instrument separation and placement, better stage, more feeling of space.
• Better clarity.
• More microdetail.
• Better extension on both ends.

Especially the differences caused by better channel separation are huge.

On the Clear Mg, vs. Focal stock cable:

• A little darker.
• A bit more detail, but due to missing sparkle in the top end, it takes some avid listening to even notice.
• The overall sound on the stock cable might even be a little better because it feels rounder, better balanced over the whole spectrum.
• The differences are subtle.

That’s more or less exactly what I remember of the Claire HPC Mk2 I had last summer. I jokingly assumed that I only felt the cable sounded darker then because I had the semi-transparent black insulation while I now have the much brighter transparent insulation. But now that I compared the new cable on the Clear, I found that it really sounds darker there to my ears, while it seems to expand treble on the HEDD2.

Is that totally bonkers? I wonder if it might have to do with the HEDD2 requiring quite a bit more power while having a smaller impedance at the same time, so the currents will be much stronger.

EDIT: I should add that I’m talking about the 4-pin XLR Focal cable because the TRS cable is much too short. As my amp doesn’t have a balanced output, I use a short 1/4” to 4-pin XLR pigtail adapter I bought for cheap in a pro audio shop. Length about 20 cm/6”, sturdy, with thick cable, but of unknown quality and materials. That might play a role, too.

On the HEDD2, vs. HEDD stock cable (nicely braided, but thin and a bit stiff, no clue about the materials):

• A little less treble, but rounder, better balanced over the spectrum.
• More microdetail (but less difference than vs. Focal cable).
• The sounds seem better defined to me, stand out more, have clearer contours, especially in the bass.
• No or very little difference regarding channel separation/instrument separation/placement.
• All in all a sizeable improvement, but not a huge one.

 

I would guess it has more to do with how the Claire cable sounds in comparison to the particular headphone's stock cable than the Claire sounding different on different headphones. Like if the stock cable is silver plated copper or silver, its' going to be brighter/flatter/more sterile (and likely just sound worse in general due to the cost of a quality, well braided cable like the Claire).

 

The largest difference I hear is quite some crosstalk between the right and left channels with the Focal cable on the HEDD2 which I don’t hear on the Clear. I guess that with the larger currents, the fact that the Focal cable isn’t braided may play a role here, though I’m not sure if we’re getting to levels here at all where this explanation might hold true in the views of an objectivist.

But the other differences make even less sense to me. I mean, detail, yes, why not. But why should switching from Focal (an OFC cable with no other metals) to Forza lead to a slightly darker presentation on one headphone while adding a little treble (and bass) on another?

 

I have solved at least parts of the mystery:

Crossfeed was switched on on both the Daccord FF and the Jazz FF—I must have done that when they were off, thinking I’d switch it off, the symbols aren’t immediately clear, at least not to me. Now, the crossfeed effect on the Meier devices is rather subtle, but much more prominent on the HEDD2 than on the Clear Mg. Plus, the effect is stronger with the Forza cable than with the Focal cable. Why that is case is beyond me, but it’s definitely quite noticeable. Those two factors together lead to not much differences between the cables in placement and space on the Clear, but a totally different feeling on the HEDD2. Oh my.

But I still have the feeling that the Forza is a little bit brighter on the HEDD2, but a little bit darker on the Clear Mg than the Focal cable. I think this might be due to different parts of the spectrum being a little highlighted by the cables, which might be more noticeable on the respective headphone?

Anyway, the changes coming from the cables are back in regions where I don’t doubt my sanity: Noticeable, but not huge.

 

How about an updated 2024 headphone makers list? I understand most people just buy from Aliexpress now, but for my own reasons I don't really buy Chifi. And I also sort of go for the reasonably priced providers.

Low/Medium price tier
- Hart Audio
- Audiophile Ninja
- Gladiator Cables

Am I missing anything?

 

Blue Jeans also makes headphone cables at a fair price.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/headphone-cables/index.htm

 

I have tried a few of the lower priced cables, Ninja, Amazon, etc. I now use Norne calbes they are more expensive and they sound much better. Worth the investment when you spend some cash on a nice set of headphones don't gimp on the cables. Its like getting a really nice car that handels well and putting retreads on it.
best,
Josh

 

Which headphones are you looking for? I am about to do a big spring cleanout and have a boatload of cable ranging from "just pay shipping" to "50% off retail." Most are either Sennhesier HD6xx or ZMF/Audeze, but I can reterminate for cost of connectors on most of them. I hope to post the FS ad by end of week now that I don't have any travel planned for the next couple months.

 

Thanks for posting this I did not know BJ did HP cables. From the low res pic they seem to use the same (or close to the same) cable sheath as Audiophile Ninja, perhaps their cable being just about as flexible? Also, I could not input a "balanced" cable with 3 pin mini xlr (Audeze/ZMF) on the can end and a "balanced" single connector (either 4 pin full zize XLR or 4.4mm TRRS on amp side), perhaps because they do not have the parts? In any case might try them out in the future.

 

This is what you are looking for. They only use 3 pins of the 4 on the mini connector for ZMF but it's still technically a 4pin mini XLR that you want at the headphone end.

 

Any HD800 cables? Would like to call dibs if there is

 

Yes. I will ping you when I get things organized with pictures and descriptions.