Keeping clocks powered prior to/between use

What level of doing this makes sense to people here?

By virtue of how its standby mode works, the clock in my Auralic Vega has been powered nonstop for the last 4 months as of this post, and has over 31k hours of on-time total according to the record it keeps. The last time it was powered off was when I had to shut off my power conditioner to change some cables, because it locks them in place somehow, and I leave the DDC with two krystek femtoclocks on all the time too, but I only added it like a month ago. So I happen to be practicing this, but I haven't really tested how much it matters.

What I can say objectively is that the DAC refuses to use its fine and exact clock precision modes unless it's been on for at least an hour, which is still a design choice, true, but with the ifi iPurifier2 SPDIF, that also has a femtoclock, but no software locks on when/how it's used, it was less stable and lost plankton temporarily for awhile after I last swapped its psu (it also stays on constantly). I can hear that the new psu was an upgrade now, but lost a specific instance of plankton I had been listening for over and over for at least an hour or two after I had briefly unpowered it. It was actually pretty unsettling at first.

I'm curious what atomicbob's philosophy was about powering his atomic clock on and off.

 

I think you need to go outside

 

I'm still not sure I am understanding the issue. You've already seemingly hit the nail on the head on the very nature of the clocks - it needs to be powered on for a certain amount of time for the clocks to reach thermal stability. The Vega already knows its going to sound like crap and have drop offs if you run Fine or Exact modes off the bat, and will only lock on with Auto mode from the get go -- Even the Purifier2 to a lesser degree is of a similar nature - most (temperature controlled) clocks need to stay on and reach a certain optimal point to sound its best. If your DACs have a standby mode, use it. If the on/off switch of your DAC is in the back, its more or less, meant to stay on, in my opinion.

 

Especially since most people here have Schiit DAC's that encourage you to leave them on all the time, as you're saying, I think it's fair to wonder if anyone's noticed what being on for months instead of hours does. There wasn't an issue -- I was detailing my use cases for context and because they're a bit different from most.

Some of you start assperg seething over words on a forum that aren't "me like PI2AES and Schiit DAC guys ". I used to be engaged to the only woman I'm guessing this place has ever seen, can tell you she left over how neurotically *bitchy* the air of this place can be, and you're like "go outside" for talking about how my DAC is on all the time, when many here are also doing that coincidentally.

 

Different scale of things altogether. Atomicbob's clock keeps the universe in line.

I guess there are applications where femtoseconds matter.

 

Ok - but no need to bring in anything about the bias of people here liking PI2AES and Schiit DACs. For me personally, I'm not a PI2AES or Schiit exclusive guy - and never touted either of these brands specifically in the discussion. I'm not trying to attack you - really agreeing with you. You have a valid point.

I was just chiming in that I think it makes sense to keep the Clocks powered. Most clocks are temperature controlled. They need to be on and operating at a certain point to be optimal.

Personally, I didn't feel that your use cases were different - quite the opposite, its a very similar issue, that many can relate to. It's just the reverse standpoint / way of looking at things......DAC owners that often explain many times (when using the DAC for the first time especially) that "after certain 4, 8, 16, 50, X, etc. hours" the sound really changed and opened up -- this is the so called "burn in period" people experience.

Hope its all good. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.

 

Sorry, none of the second paragraph was at you, but the prior reply, to be clear, which was ridiculous and added nothing.

 

Speaking a little more seriously, are you confusing burning in with warming up? The first, although a popular concept (especially with manufacturers) is, to say the least, contested. The second is also somewhat prone to misunderstanding but is certainly a historical, if not a current, thing. (current: no pun intended).

 

Warmup (and related: reaching thermal equilibrium) can actually take a long time with low-ish powered components. Hours are possible.

Tubes have filament heaters. Some clocks are oven-controlled.

A poor man just puts an incandescent lamp beneath his dac (or stacks it on top of an amp).

 

Lol. Good point. I'll say that these terms are conflated at times. There is of course a distinction, between the two - and you are absolutely right on both points.

Nonetheless, at some point the two would intersect in the beginning of ownership (if the claim that you believe in both) - where you would be warming it up AND burning it in, and would be contributing to the pursuit of better sound quality -- then it comes down to, keep your gear powered on and overtime, should get better if it can get better.

 

Sorry but would you mind rephrasing your exact question or concern and I am sure people will weigh in? If your question is about importance of keeping things warm, I think every DAC manufacturer extols the importance of warm clocks - well at the perfectly warm stable temperature. The crystal at the center of a clock can vibrate differently with temperature differences which can affect clock accuracy. This stable warm temperature takes time to acquire hence ( presumably) Auralic's insistence on this temperature being acquired for a exact clock mode. Regarding leaving it on all the time, in my mind its a preference. I switch off my DAC if I know I won't be listening for a while as I feel that it will warm up again.

I am no audio expert and I have found SBAF to have it's culture and norms, but people respect you and provide generous advice (and time) here. Everyone is biased in some way - saying that all people at SBAF are biased about Schiit is a good example of Bias!!

 

I have SU-6 with me right now and there is no switch in it to power it off and it is supposed to be on all the time for the clock to be at optimal thermal stability.
Similarly I keep my DAC, R2R, on all the time.

 

As @Thad E Ginathom notes, I have a laboratory with requirements differing considerably from audiophile listening. Achieving accuracy without delay is very important to me, especially given my status of septuagenarian. So I keep the following powered up on true sine UPS (several) 24/7:

Jackson Labs Fury GPSDO time reference
SRS FS725 Rubidium time reference
Antelope Audio LIveClock
Several Focusrite Rednet Dante to AES/spdif DDC converters
Schiit Yggdrasil A2 DAC
Schiit Gungnir A2 DAC
Schiit Bifrost A2 DAC
Holo Audio KTE Spring 2 DAC
Holo Audio KTE Spring 3 DAC

In the lab I have Keysight frequency counters such as 53220A. They obtain their time reference from one of the time references listed above via clock distributors. The Dante DDC converters are also disciplined from one of the lab time references. All devices are maintained at a narrow range of temperature with true sine UPS power for maximum stability. If a measurement device has been off for any significant period of time then 30 to 60 minutes of warmup is required before taking measurements for record.

The Schiit Yggdrasil A2 and Gungnir A2 are almost always connected to an EC ZDSE as is an Auralic Vega. Yggdrasil is used 95% of the time. Gungnir about 4.9%. Auralic Vega 0.1%.

The KTE Spring 2 & 3 DACs are connected alternately to EC Studio B, Nitsch ECP Audio DSHA-3FN, SW51+ or Nitsch Piety.

DDC warmup jitter measurements:
https://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/ddc-warm-up-time-technical-measurements.4178/

That phrase should be part of the indoctrination welcome for newcomers!!

See list of DACs above. I'm not parting with any of my Schiit DACs anytime soon.

 

Welcome to the neighborhood bar

 

I've heard amp burn-in on the order of, like, a day or two with the burson conductor and the Schiit Jotunheim 2 -- I think it's a thing with big capacitors, but not radically so. It's hard for me to say because I've always had multiple systems I jump between, and I use the highest fidelity one the least. My experience with swapping psu's on the ifi iPurifier2 SPDIF may have been in part due to the caps in the ifi ipower x being new, idk. I also don't know why I said "an hour or two" before, because it was actually more like 3 hours afterward that I did the long listen -- the stability issues I mentioned were it muting the DAC when I did a quick listen minutes after the swap; I work from home and was messing around on break time. The ifi fixed itself the next time I listened over a day later. Maybe someone with more resolving cans or who just listens more scientifically would have heard something off for longer than a day.

I brought up the comparison between what Auralic software forces vs what I could hear from the ifi since maybe Auralic lied about the hour to make the clock sound fancier -- maybe it's 10 minutes and they just won't let you check, but the experience with the ifi at least says otherwise.

 

The point about total on time effecting short term warm up might be why I haven't found sq changes after the hour it let's me activate exact mode. The ifi-powered adnaco optical bus I used for years was too jittery for exact mode to even work, so by the time I got any worthy source gear it had 10's of thousands of hours of burn-in.

Given this experience, do you get why I think it's pretty cool I can now use EXACT mode for PC and console gaming with a 16-foot USB cable run? Some have suggested I'm just blabbering nonsense for no reason in talking about these things here. You and Bob had interesting things to say instead of "go outside". Thank you!

 

I prefer the re-clocked version (despite the worse SINAD):