Nearfields for audiophile listening?

As with most speakers it's best to listen at home

 

So... pretty balanced, then?

 

Sorry to derail the Genelecs discussion - but I just got some sorbothane hemispheres and put them under my speakers.. damn, its so weird feeling 20% of the bass being transferred to my desk.. I'm so thrown off by this I cant tell if the increased separation and accurance in pinpointing instruments are just a result of decoupling me from the speakers or if its really there (or a combination of both)

Gonna spend more time with this, it actually feels quite nice and i wish I'd got bigger hemispheres to decouple them more - these are 1.25" diameter, so quite a bit smaller than the recommended 2"

 

Well, if this was the Genelecs thread, I suppose the mods would have to kill you. But it isn't, so... phew!

If I can feel the bass vibrating in my arms at the keyboard, then I think something must be wrong. Especially as the desktop is so much closer to my ears than a floor would be. Speakers on a wooden floor, must be doing the same thing to the floor? But with speakers on a desk it feels different.

Do you feel that difference with the desktop?

Reflections is a different problem, of course. I don't think I have it. There is so much rubbish on my desk that it is more like a diffuser than a desk.

 

maybe i phrased it wrong, but with the speakers directly on the desk i'd feel bass lines and other relatively low frequencies passed onto my desk, which transferred to my arms when I rest them on it. I dont mean stuff that will shake your bones, its just a feeling on your skin. You probably have it but havent noticed it much - I didnt until now!

I still do have this, but much less. I think the reason there still is some transfer is a because of the sorbothane not being thick enough to damp the lowest frequencies - as far as i remember some dude who did make some calculations (which i did not verify) said that 1" of material is what you want (so a 2" diameter hemisphere)

Edit: I went back and forth, and the biggest increase in clarity is down low. And this is what leads me into hearing better separation, because the bass isnt as muddled together as before. I didnt think decoupling was this important, even though in the grand scheme of things treatment and what not are more important

 

Yes. They were standing next to each other on other monitors. When sitting I was too low and when standing I was too high. I had to listen bent over...

Then what about monitors that are brighter than the Genelecs? I believe there are quite many. Are they even worse in your room? I mean if one monitor has harsher upper mids / treble than another one, it will stay this way in every room, treated or not, won't it?

 

Concerning the sorbothane issue: I have no experience with this but I saved some info from a thread at gearslutz, where one guy seemed to be pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. Maybe it helps you to sort things out:

Spoiler: Sorbothane - How to calculate load, sweet spot, durometers and stuff

There are a horde of different sorbothane shapes & sizes. It and sylomer are the best decoupling materials, but sylomer isn't as widely available.

The softer durometers are better. 30 being the softest offered. Those same discs you linked are available in 30 duro with a more useful load rating of 70-140lb per disc, but that's still way above monitor weight and where you want to be.

This is what I went for to decouple my monitors:

Amazon.com: 2" Sorbothane Hemisphere Rubber Bumper Non-skid Feet with Adhesive 30 Durometer - 4-pack: Home Improvement

1" thick, 30 duro. 11-16lb load rating per disk which gives you a load range of 44-64lb for 4 and a sweetspot of 54lb.

One thing I would strongly advise though when trying to keep within effective load ratings is to keep from going past the middle sweet spot. It's better to have them slightly underloaded than overloaded. Overloading can lead to a slight tipping of your monitor to one side according to the weight distribution of the speaker.

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Just look at what the rated load is for the sorbothane product in question.

Going up to the 2.5" hemis the load rating on them is listed at 25-35lb each which means a sweet spot of 30lb each. So if you're using 4 of them the sweet spot is 120lb which is great for your 115lb monitors. Close to the sweet spot but slightly under.

For anyone else just keep in mind what I mentioned. The best decoupling will come from the larger sizes at the softer durometer. 30 durometer and 1" thick decouples to 7-10hz. But just make sure you use the right size and amount of them for your load just like we just calculated. If they're rated 25-35lb each the sweet spot is 30lb each so 4 of them gets you a 120lb sweet spot. And it's much better to have a 110-120lb load on there than a 120-130lb load. The closer you can get to the sweet spot without going over, the better.

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For anyone unclear, to calculate what you need just look at the load rating which is always mentioned in the listing info. If it says 25-35lb each then the average of that (the sweet spot) is 30lb each. So using 4 of them gets you a range of 100-140lb with a sweet spot in the middle at 120lb. Basic math here

 

Sadly, the reason that I don't have it much now is lack of bass response from my current speakers! Yes, I do know what you mean, and meant that, yes, I did feel something wrong.

No, not bone shaking, but yes, like buzzing. And that vibration is being transmitted to the air, interfering with sound-in-transit and/or reaching our ears independently.

Thinking about it now (thanks! ) I wonder if desk structure makes a difference. Mine is a typical office table, only supported at the back. Maybe, like a ruler held on the edge of a table, such a design is more prone to vibration?

Anyway... sorbothane is giving good results for you. Good. More might be better, but complete isolation might require something more complex and expensive. Which might not be worth it past a certain point.

Do you point your speakers up? Or are you keeping same thickness front and back?

 

Yup I think good stands are probably the best to get there.

I threw in a cork mat under the front sorbothane hemispheres, so they are slightly angled upwards

 

I tend to stay away from bright, but there are too many variables. Listen for yourself unless you can rely on some ears you can trust. And even then don't buy without a solid return policy.

 

So let me ask this question, I just grabbed a pair of the LSR 30Xs, and I'm thinking how I can use them with my desk. I've got balanced output on my Dac, and they accept balanced in, perfect! But the volume control is on the back :/

Seems like using a pre amp would be ideal. I just got an SPL meter so I shouldn't have an issue getting the two individual channels volume matched, but how do I proceed to adjust the Volume from there? My question is, is there a balanced input output preamp that's affordable and transparent. I saw the Freya for $699 q.q which might be great down the line but is a bit too much for now.

I'll most likely keep them in the living room, hooked up to the Tele, so that's easy get a Modi and a Sys and be done with it. [Modi Uber isn't worth it imo my wife won't care about fidelity, and when I'm watching TV I'm streaming so I won't be super concerned with fidelity either] still when I'm ready to move them into my desk space, I'd like to hopefully not need the Freya to control the volume... so what balanced options are there

 

There's a ton of monitor controllers like this product, but not many with remote controls. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WT4DJN0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_X29vzbJ9X82JW

 

There are several negative reviews on this monitor controller at german Thomann webshop.

"Dynamics suffer at lower volumes and stereo image is shifting", say several people.

That's one of the reasons I finally ordered a Freya ^^

The majority of reviews are positive, though.

https://www.thomann.de/de/palmer_monicon_reviews.htm?lang=1&rating=2

 

It would be ideal if you need to switch between multiple sources. It might be overkill if you don't. In principle, it is exactly what you need, because you now have power amps: built into the speakers.

Otherwise you need a volume knob. Otherwise known as a monitor controller, coming with different degrees of additional functionality and expense.

If I were to become active again just now, I would do one of two things. Either restore the rather lovely McCormac active/passive pre-amp I have, which needs a new pot and all new connectors --- or buy a Schiit Sys.

 

If I were take pics or videos of my office, would someone be willing to tell me whether it even made sense to have nearfields in my office? I've got a small office, with a giant wook desk in the middle, desk to ceiling windows on two sides (share a corner) and book shelves full of books on the other two sides (share a corner).

 

I'm using that controller; haven't noticed those issues myself. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but I haven't noticed it. Changing cables has a more pronounced effect than adding that passive controller to my ears.

 

The biggest issue is I'd like to run Balanced out -.-, I guess I'll just use the second set of RCA's on my NFB10ES2 until I can get the Freya, but once these are ready for the living room I'll just be running a modi an Sys, I guess I can keep the sys till I'm ready to get them set up on my desk

 

Ahh, yes. Sorry, now I recall not seeing balanced connectors on that little/low-cost Schiit box.

Now, this is just my theory and may be all-screwy, but... I think you should. Mostly, I don't think that short, balanced interconnects, apart from being an intrinsically better technology, make any difference to domestic audio, but I suspect that. with pro gear, even the entry-level stuff is made for balanced, with unbalanced being a secondary option. And XLRs feel nice too. Chunky and pro, unlike those silly accident-of-history RCAs .

And the levels are different. Even with my M-Audio AV40s (powered, but not "active") I thought balanced was sort-of-better, and certainly I had to turn the volume up quite a lot for the lower levels of unbalanced input. Sadly, it had TRRS connectors, as did my firewire DAC, so I didn't have the buzz of plugging in an XLR.

As mentioned, you can find monitor controllers on the pro-audio shopping sites. Maybe not go for an expensive one at first, as they don't come with stealth coating. There's a company called Gold-something[??? ring? mark?] that makes a whole range of pots-in-boxes. They are actually expensive... but It may be an advantage that they don't look it!

EDIT: -point. Goldpoint.

 

http://www.khozmo.com/ has a good selection as well.

 

I'm actually going to skip over the LSR 30X, wife just got approved for her residency!!! We thought it would come in December, but it's early. Which is great, although I need to save for a plane ticket :3 so I may just grab the Freya and something nice when I'm ready.