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USB Nervosa Thread Decrapifiers, pro interfaces, and bears oh my

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by zerodeefex, Sep 28, 2015.

Page 34 of 96
  1. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Very well said, I agree with many of your points.
     
    bixby, Aug 27, 2016
    #661
  2. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    :eek:
    :punk:
     
    Maxx134, Aug 27, 2016
    #662
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I don't know if you've actually been carefully reading this thread. Ravi and I are NOT USB fuckology cynics or unbelievers. I've probably fucked with this shit more than anyone here, going back to three high end DACs.

    What we are suggesting is that people not take USB fuckology to such an extreme where one loses sight of the big picture and it becomes an ends to itself. This is not unlike our advice against excessive tube rolling. This advice especially applies to people who are new to the hobby or do not already have a great DAC. I bet 90% of the time, people would have benefited more by saving an additional three months to buy a better DAC instead of a chain of two or three USB defuckifiers.

    Ravi was concerned about noobs reading this thread and thinking that Extreme USB Fuckology was an "SBAF Approved Practice." Yes, there are people who do this here with top end DACs, but they know exactly what they are doing, and they have deep pockets. But there are also many of us who don't bother, because as Jason said, life's too short. We'd rather set a budget to buy the best DAC with the best USB implementation for a specific price point to listen to music and not keep f'ing with USB defuckifiers.
     
    purr1n, Aug 27, 2016
    #663
  4. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    I'm not a car guy but all this makes me think: How much are you going to spend tuning up the Scion before you've spent as much as a Civic? For some (many of the frequent posters in this thread) they want to experience getting that extra little boost, zero in on their ideal handling or driving experience...but the practical advantage is not a worthwhile investment of time or money for most, especially when you can move into a different price bracket and get a better engine stock from the dealership with a higher level of comfort and polish.

    I like to read this thread every now and then just to see what is new and hot so I can keep an eye on things. But I agree with the first post:

    You're welcome to do what you want, but most of the devices discussed here are $300+, easy. I can understand putting $100 down on a $500+ product you really enjoy (in my case, my tower's USB implementation seems to be effed and I'd really like more consistent performance). But it's similar to cables. The potential difference from $300 cables plugged between $300 components is almost assuredly far less than spending that extra $300 on a better component.

    Anyhow, please do keep posting. I find it interesting that the Focusrite and other pro solutions are gaining some traction alongside the Mutecs and such. And i2S may not be a magic bullet but there does seem to be potential. I'd like to see digital delivery keep improving and that requires people to be interested and experiment. Just keep in mind the difference between engineers testing hypotheses and some dude in his apartment or a Chinese manufacturing area slapping some chips together and typing "PRAT" on the description page.
     
    Azteca, Aug 27, 2016
    #664
  5. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Follow ups:

    1. I put a lot more faith in offerings from pro audio companies. Mutec, Lynx, etc make studio gear and have to meet actual quality standards for their clients.

    2. High end consumer audio companies don't understand USB nearly as well as you think they do. They peddle bullshit like surfacing bandwidth concerns in the hopes you'll buy their products. Oftentimes, there's a little truth mixed in with the bullshit to sell you the ULTIMATE SOLUTION. Don't be fooled.
     
    zerodeefex, Aug 27, 2016
    #665
  6. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I have a Wyrd that I enjoy because my computer makes stupid blips and fuzzy noises from usb depending what lights/appliances are on in the house. I don't give a rat's patoot about infinitesimal sound quality changes, this thing decrapified the actual crappity crap and that's all I wanted.
     
    Armaegis, Aug 27, 2016
    #666
  7. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    I believe #2 is a very key point, and was just about the only consideration I had when getting a gizmo. Very simply, I wanted galvanic isolation between my DAC and MBP, and I went with the Intona because (1) it's not an "audiophile" product, and (2) their spec sheet and BOM is made available and I actually knew what the design goals were and how they were achieved. I still have no intention of comparing it to a slew of other products marketed to audiophiles, and I like what it does in my headphone rig, which is very admittedly subtle.
     
    bazelio, Aug 27, 2016
    #667
  8. Gravity

    Gravity Friend

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    What about Focusrite, aren't they making studio gear also?
     
    Gravity, Aug 27, 2016
    #668
  9. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    I think focusrite might fall under the etc in his post, hahaha
     
    bixby, Aug 27, 2016
    #669
  10. Gravity

    Gravity Friend

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    Oh I missed the etc. :D My bad.
     
    Gravity, Aug 27, 2016
    #670
  11. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    You know what the cure for nervosa is?

    Drink tea and see… :piratemug:

    JJ ;)
     
    johnjen, Aug 27, 2016
    #671
  12. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    The U12 with the XMOS ASIO is an amazing performer; USB packet trains run on schedule better than most other drivers I've used on various laptops / desktops with multiple flavors of WinX. If you can find an MC-3+USB and A/B audition to the U12, it would be worth your time. However chaining an MC-3+ (non-usb) with the U12 may not provide any perceived improvement. Several of us have tried U12->MC-3+ with indistinguishable results; no perceptible change using the modest level system depicted.
     
    atomicbob, Aug 27, 2016
    #672
  13. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    How are you measuring and comparing this?
     
    bazelio, Aug 27, 2016
    #673
  14. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    @atomicbob

    A tedious request, would you be able to do some kind of measurements for Mutec Mc3+ USB? e.g. running the same test that you did for yggdrasil with it's internal usb, but this time with the Mutec in chain. I am sure many in SBAF(especially Yggdrasil users) will be interested to know if there's any measurable differences with the Mutec in chain. And maybe the Gustard U12 measurements would be great too...(Am I asking too much?)


    @SSL
    Mutec wasn't able to give me a definitive answer, but speculation is that it could be related to memory leaks in the operating system(due to my mutec's 24/7 continuous running without shutdown) or usb controller firmware versioning changes.

    @zerodeefex
    I got PPA USB card a few months before Wyrd was officially released. And it was one of the most cheapest(vs SOTM and etc) audiofool usb in 2014.
    I admit the minor improvement in sound quality doesn't justify the cost, but hey there are worse performing expensive audiofool products out there like magic rocks right?
     
    Madaboutaudio, Aug 27, 2016
    #674
  15. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    I'm not disputing the rest of your post, but if your self-justification is "at least I didn't buy magic rocks!" you might still be in trouble...
     
    aufmerksam, Aug 27, 2016
    #675
  16. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Yep, I have a ton of em on my amp..
    :oops:

    Edit:
    Have to re-evaluate the effects of each "USB Nervosa" item I have in the chain now..
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2016
    Maxx134, Aug 27, 2016
    #676
  17. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2016
    Madaboutaudio, Aug 27, 2016
    #677
  18. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Linux user here. Dunno if your statements still apply but thks for your help. Actually I'm happy with the u12 but I still wonder if I miss something. :)
     
    sorrodje, Aug 27, 2016
    #678
  19. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    I spent an hour today switching between the Mutec 1.2 and straight Bifrost Multibit, then the Singxer F-1 and Bifrost Multibit. I figured once I determined differences against Bifrost Multibit, I could move on and compare them against each other. Well, I never made it that far. I couldn't discern any difference using either of them against Schiit's USB Gen 2. Every time I thought I'd picked up on a difference, on some characteristic particular to one of them, Bifrost Multibit would go ahead and reproduce it exactly.

    @Dr. Higgs' Wyrd is still here from our micromeet last week, so in it went against Bifrost Multibit too. Couldn't pick up a difference there either. This basically mirrors my USB gremlin deschiitifier experience from a few years ago. Perhaps deschiitifier technology has improved since 2012, or perhaps not.

    Amusingly, I googled and found my 2012 impressions comparing direct Antelope Zodiac DAC USB against the Wavelink and Audeophilleo 2 (both vogue deschiitifiers from back then). I've quoted my initial findings below for those of you that are interested. I walked away from that test thinking the Zodiac's USB was pretty dope. XD I remember @TMoney and I did some blind tests using his SR-009/KGSSHV rig and couldn't tell a difference either.

    To put my findings in perspective, the differences between Modibit and Bifrost Multibit were clearly distinguishable to me during testing last week. I put my finger consistently on the two characteristics that separated Modibit from Bifrost Multibit--weaker bass extension and weaker imaging, particularly on the depth axis.

    Quick aside on Modibit -- I think the reason we see so many dissonant opinions on the Modibit vs. better DACs is because most of these comparisons are happening on headphone rigs. If you exclusively listen to headphones, just save yourself some money and get a Modibit. You're not going to miss differences you're not going to hear. Don't get me wrong, I think Modibit is a great DAC, in fact, I wish I had an ODAC around so I could tell you just how great. Relative to Bifrost Multibit on a decent speaker rig though, that's a different matter.

    Below, 2012 comparison of Zodiac USB vs. Audiophileo 2 vs. Wavelink using the LCD-2 r.1 (LOL!) I edited the quote for clarity and brevity:
    Looks like I didn't consider the third possibility, that Wavelink and AP2 don't do anything over Zodiac and that Zodiac's USB implementation was nothing special either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
    sphinxvc, Aug 27, 2016
    #679
  20. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    A combination of a USB protocol analyzer and observed behavior with the dScope communicating to the USB driver for the DDC or DAC being tested.
     
    atomicbob, Aug 27, 2016
    #680
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