What's Your Rule of Thumb in this Audiophile hobby?

If a recording is mastered like this:



I can forget about enjoying the listening experience, regardless of the audio equipment I use.

 

That's the original, good version. The re-issue is one long black strip, with just an occasional tiny notch of green in that section on the right.

What is is it, by the way?

And is that Cooledit Pro? I luuuurved that software! Completely intuitive, as defined by my intuition!

 

Having awesome gear won't make us fewer asshats; realizing when enough is enough and being excellent to each other do.

 

David Bowie - "Station To Station" track from the Live Nassau Coliseum '76 concert on the Station To Station [Deluxe Edition] 2010. It is the same mastering as the Station To Station [Special Edition] (3CD) 2010 that I own. Measures a lovely DR6.

Yeah, it is Cooledit Pro. I don't have Cooledit Pro myself. (If I want to look at a waveform, all I have is Audacity.) I was being lazy and got the image from this post by jhm.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...ajor-compilation.380406/page-27#post-11439103

It was just to illustrate a point.

I've observed that people have different reactions to dynamics (or a lack of dynamics) in music. For me, 90 some percent of the time, below DR8 and with the volume turned up beyond quiet I start feeling a tension in my head that I can't ignore. Since listening to music is all about pleasure - then I am screwed.

 

Dynamics are a bitch. When I first start listening to a squished track, it sounds awesome to me. I want to turn it up louder.

Then a couple of minutes pass and I physically feel like shit. And I ask myself why I do it to myself. Every time.

 

at least not bad as skrillx....skrillx actually got a reward from somewhere for breaking the record of having the loudest cd ever....his shit had mad distortion and sounded like absolute poop but, for some reason people loves his stuff...i always hated his stuff... he should be ashamed calling himself a electronic music producer and call himself a dubstep producer...his stuff not even real dubstep...i knew bout garage and dubstep way before this turd came out of nowhere.

 

Buy a pair of HD6X0s, mod them, and then don't buy another headphone for at least a year while going to meets to try others out

But....all of my music looks like this. Some even worse than that :/

 

I was not trying to pick one of the most extreme examples of peak limiting. I just chose the first thing that came to mind that was music that I otherwise would have enjoyed listening to, but could not due to the mastering.

And we are wired differently. What is a problem to me may be pleasurable to another.

 

See, I just always wonder how him and many others don't hear it. I mean, I know how it goes. When you're listening to something repeatedly and making little adjustments over time, you get desensitized and your brain starts playing tricks on you, but it should've been obvious when they went to check it on other systems later, right?

I dunno, part of me just doesn't want to believe that there are so many producers and mastering techs out there who crush the mixes deliberately. I always picture label suits holding guns to their heads with suitcases full of money at their feet. I feel like everybody who takes production seriously KNOWS what happens when you overdo it. They gotta know when the compromises outweigh the benefits. It's odd to me that so many producers do it, in spite of the fact that most frown upon it when asked about it.

Or maybe they do know the truth, but they're just so jaded that they think people are stupid and wouldn't know good dynamics if they were living in an episode of Seinfeld. I do notice that most casual listeners I speak to tend to think that louder is better. When they show off a system, they're always so proud of how loud it gets. Give the people what they want, I suppose.

And one thing I tend to notice... ...well, it depends on the scene (some people genuinely believe low DR is the way to go,) but most of the little underground guys are far less likely to squish the shit out of their tracks unless they have a specific effect they're going for. And on the flipside, I've seen how the ones who start really climbing up introduce steeper and steeper limiting from record to record. I swear, they're trying to f**k with our heads. Maybe they want us to think each new release is the biggest yet?

 

Indeed, and, with the current state of my ears, compression is something that I can actually use to help myself hear all the music. But then, that is application by the end user to suit their purpose or need --- which is not the same as having the dynamic detail stolen from under our noses before the music even reaches us.

Its the difference between choice and no choice.

 

My Rule of Thumb In this Audiophile Hobby...

In that the "hobby" part means talking and writing about it, ,rather than just listening to music. Actually, it is the same rule as I apply to discussions about religion, psychic, paranormal, metaphysical etc...

Even when people describe an experience correctly and accurately, it does not mean that they are correct about its cause. The experience is one thing; what was actually going on, is quite another.

There... that's my rule of thumb

 

Peer pressure. So long as you are talking small groups of people then unless someone is extra-passionate about audio quality they may think compression sounds bad.. and then end up on the conclusion that they must be missing an important factor that everyone else is in on. I see it in marketing all the time, there are a lot of companies which employ counter-productive tactics to their campaigns and I can only assume they're mimicking companies they respect who did it first.

I buy music from obscure groups & even labels that make a point not to make cash because they feel it makes them more authentic(or they make music for ideological reasons over profit) and all the compression & brickwalling of the big labels is there too. If it's not preference its a matter of not rocking the boat.

 

For newbies, start with modestly priced "sweet spot" gear and see how it goes. You might be surprised.

If you have to stretch outside your financial comfort zone or otherwise make great sacrifices to buy something, keep in mind that the law of diminishing returns almost guarantees it won't be worth it. And if you do it anyway, make sure you can audition first and read the return policy closely.

Be careful with the volume control.

 

On the DAC/amp end, absolutely true for me. I'm glad I didn't spend a ton on a dac and amp to start. Knowing what I know now, I won't be bothering for some time... ...not until I can fault the ones I already have, anyway.

But as far as headphones go, I wish I had spent a little more. $100 headphones sound massively better than $50 ones. $150-$180 headphones make many $100 headphones sound like Best Buy garbage. I can think of two $300-$400 headphones that absolutely destroy all of the above. I probably would've been better off with the basic Schiit stack and HD600's than I currently am with the M2U/Vali 2 stack and DT990 pro's.

Really wasn't the worst choice I could make... ...it has it's charms in my ears and I get a ton of enjoyment out of the rig. The individual components are still high-value and I wasn't flexing to make it happen, but the setup overall is lower-performance compared to others. When I heard the HD600's and thought about how if I had just shaved a little over $100 off of my DAC/amp budget I could've had better sound for the cash, I was a little disappointed.

It's really true. Until the top tiers, headphones are the real bottleneck 90% of the time. If you can't afford an expensive DAC, amp and headphones, it really is better to either put it all into headphones or make at least 2/3 of your budget headphones. A $300 DAC and/or amp will not be nearly as significant of an upgrade from a $100 one if your headphones are also cheapie-peepee. A $100 pair of cans fed by a $300 source will not sound as good as a $300 headphone will sound when fed by a $100 source. Pointless to have a super dynamic and resolving source if the cans can't render it.

Of course price doesn't mean fidelity - there are $300 cans that suck next to ones at half of the price, but you know what I mean. I'm talking about the "1st option" cans from each of the low-mid rungs.

 

Decent hifi has not been utterly unaffordable since my parents' generation --- and I'm over 60!

So another rule of thumb is not to think that one can't get good music without spending $,000s.

 

Well said. In my experience, transducers by far make the most sound quality difference in a system. As long as you don't have any real *problems* with your source and amp, I believe the headphones should definitely be the biggest chunk of the budget. That's not to say the benefits of quality electronics aren't real, just a word of caution that it's very easy to get caught up in all the latest / coolest tech on the electronics side of the equation, even though the jump in performance is usually much, much more subtle than a headphone upgrade.

That said, I don't particularly *want* to spend a fortune on headphones either, so I really, really hope to see more headphone makers start competing on "bang for the buck" rather than introducing a new four-figure flagship every 6 months. I do think there is some decent trickle-down in tech from the flagship headphones starting to happen here and there, but I'd really love to see someone going after Schiit's market from the headphone side.

 

I completely support that last sentiment. I'm all for Krappe's first line of transducers! It's German or something. If you don't want to spend a lot for good sound, just put some Schiit on your desk and some Krappe on your head!

Okay, at that point, they'd be making a mockery of the whole industry, haha. Could you imagine all of the major players getting beat out by a buncha Schiit and Krappe?

I don't think you have to go TOTL to have a kickass headphone, nor does it cost what is often charged to make a kickass headphone. That's just what those companies want us to think. That's the most important thing to realize going in, I think. You don't have to do it! You don't need to buy TOTL if all that you want is good sound! TOTL's a whole nother arena of pros and cons. Too many people get confused and sucked into that high-end craze for all of the wrong reasons...

The TOTL market is insane to me. Little by little, let's hope to pick away at that. It's not that it shouldn't exist at all. There just needs to be a better balance.

Maybe Schiit isn't in that market, but they shift the bar just the same. Schiit's success points to a large demographic that either don't have the money or don't buy into audiophilia as much, but want something that performs as well as it possibly can for the price. Even the success and praise of their higher-end stuff marks a trend. People know now... ...they know what's up!

Those very same people have to be buying headphones, too. I think it's only a matter of time before headphone makers will have to compete for that market. There's a lot of money to be made in the sheer volume you can push.

I think the issue there is that we can say, "Well, who in their right mind would pay TOTL prices if they didn't have to?" But the purveyors of these cans will say "Exactly. You wouldn't..."

It's kind of a twisted game they all play, isn't it? The price grade is totally rigged in the manufacturer's favor. Everyone playing knows the game. They appear to compete and to some extent, they do, but really, they support each other's existence by charging what they do. I imagine many manufacturers wouldn't be too happy about a mid-price headphone with truly TOTL characteristics encroaching on their territory... ...it'd kill both their flagships and their budget offerings.

You know what would be cool? If, when a new TOTL entry popped-up, the old ones continued to be sold, but at a lower price. I mean, if the new model is supposed to be better, then the old ones should go for less, right? Right??

But I'm rambling now...

I agree, the electronics are important, too. Competency is a must and high-end is a worthwhile step if really climbing up the ladder is what you want to do, though not needed if you just want good sound. But either way, you still need your endgame cans first!


Bottom line, imo... ...excellent sound isn't cheap, but it shouldn't be and doesn't have to be exorbitantly expensive, either. Past a certain threshold, it's a matter of how much what you're getting is worth to you.

 

And the price point for decent hifi is dropping all the time. Look at some of the things that have caught our attention recently: Multibit Modi, Carbo Tenore.

 

Better an mp3 of great music (to the listener, of course) played back on a phone with ear buds than crap music in high-res on the best gear.

It is hard to enjoy music if you are hungry because you spent grocery money on audio gear.

 

1) Don't automatically freak out if your gear is warm or hot to the touch since heat often correlates with better sound.

2) Buy an Andromeda. A revelation to me.

3) Try to find an HE-6, especially if under $1k new, or second-hand. Never ceases to engage musicality and technicality.

Many already covered the HD6xx so no need for me to iterate what's been said.