Schiit Jotunheim impressions

I still own both cans (though should probably get around to selling the 400i to fund more silliness, now I have some HE560), and tend to agree. I think Pillars is conflating a lot of things and coming to an odd conclusion.

Running both balanced out of the Jot, you do get a meretricious planar speed thrill, that's for sure- I know I did, too. The fact that the stock 650 are undeniably more bass-forward and rolled off in the highs (that being the tuning) can lead to careless first impressions- the thinner, more "planar sounding" 400i is full of speed. For a day or two, I did feel like selling the 650s, with a "what is this crap?" style response, until I really got time to sit down at the weekend and listen properly.

Yes, the stock 650 are dark and mid-bassy, leading some people to think that they're a bit veiled, but they are extremely resolving and detailed- all the way through the frequency response. The growly, textured mid-bass is particularly delicious and chewy.

The 400i, on the other hand tends to a little thinness. The bass is fast, but doesn't hit terribly hard, and doesn't have the requisite "fatness" when challenged. The instrument separation is possibly easier to hear than the stock 650, but the width of sound stage is nothing to write home about. The highs, which are easier for the casual listener to latch onto, are slightly forward.. but do tend towards a tiny amount of grain.

They're very different sounds, with a quite different FR, so to some extent it's comparing apples and oranges, but overall, the HD650 has fewer downsides and has more depth to its resolving ability. The bass will never be as fast as a planar driver, but it's a lot more textured and powerful. Calling the HD650 sound "dated" is, frankly a shallow and unhelpful comment (sorry, Pillars ).

I suspect that someone who finds the sound of the stock 650 too dark would be better off modding, rather than selling them. They're a better and more resolving headphone overall- and if I could only have one to pair with my Jot, they'd be very high on my list, and definitely at the top if you're on a finite budget- as long as you drive them balanced.

(I haven't modded mine yet, my "brain EQ" seems to be happy going between stock 650 and planars. I shall probably pick up a second pair of 650 to mod when I see some cheap..)

The 400i are a good budget planar, and very easy to drive (though they do love the Jot's speed), and I am far from dismissing their value as a nice musical alternative. They sounds surprisingly nice out of the Jot, and not nearly as shouty as you might expect. However, it's far from as good a pairing as the HD650, which are (pleasingly) cheaper, more readily available, more comfortable and better supplied with spares, too- a nice bonus. If it were an either/or choice, it's an obvious decision- though Little Baby Jesus won't be angry if you do own more than one pair of headphones.

 

I had my stock and the one that came with the dampener mods. Ran them balanced. I think the dampening was a little over done as I preferred my stock pair, however I plan on putting a mild amount of dynamat on mine.

As for the 400i discussion, I found it to be an okay headphone. At the going used prices today, it is an excellent entry to planars. Way to excited up top though and didn't offer the midrange clarity and micro details that the 650 could do. Speed is only good as long as it doesn't race past all the details.

Ended up selling the 400i and now have a 560 which is much closer to the level of performance my 650 plays at.

 

Do you know if your 650 had the "coin mod" hole in the foam? I know @pedalhead overdid his, and found the highs a bit much.. (this is why I love people trying this stuff out first). Gathering data points so I can be better prepared..

I totally agree on the 400i - I was pleasantly surprised that it lost the touch of sibilance that it had through a Magni 2U, and it sounded a ton tighter and faster through the Jot, but it felt like it stopped scaling long before the amp did (if that makes sense). It's an unfair comparison, though, as the HD650 really is a bit of a unicorn. The 400i is a really nice intro to Planars.. it really isn't bad, a comfy, enjoyable listen. It's just that it's hard to beat the 650 at even two or three times the price.

 

No coin mod. Mine were completely stock and the one sent along with the Jot loaner only had the dampening mods.

 

Eenteresting.. I'm not sure what to make of that. Thanks!

 

Been listening to the Jotunheim with the Elear through my macbook air without an external dac for the last couple of days. My impressions are that the Jotunheim does what every other dedicated amp I've tried does-- it tightens up the bass portraying less bloom, and the sound in general is slightly more focused compared to the macbook air's internal sound and my pc's internal sound. The focusing of the sound is more subtle than the loss of bass bloom though. The latter is probably a result of better damping so that seems as if it would make sense.

Nevertheless, I'd consider the difference subtle in my eyes, and not worth the 400 dollar hit on my wallet. I'd say I get 90% of the magic the Elear offers when fed straight out of the computers' headphone outs. I was grateful to demo the Jotunheim for a couple of days so I could make a choice on rather or not to buy the amp or blindly spend money on it.

Sadly, because of the loaner HD650 I have only came with the balanced cable, I was not able to test the HD650 on the amp vs the computers, but I can say that I didn't find it veiled at all on the Jotunheim. By the same token though I never found it veiled when I had it 5 years ago and was testing it on an O2 and my iMac. It has plenty of lower treble and mid treble to balance its midrange and bass, it's still lacking in extreme low bass and upper treble extension, and it's still slightly aggressive around 5k, where I would consider it to be a little peaky in the area.

 

My feelings were similar about the bass, until I EQ'd the 400i in the lower regions. In the end I went with quality over quantity. The 400i is still holds down the spacial queue winner and imaging incredibly well compared to the 650. When gaming, I could easily pick out enemies exact position with space around them, with the 650 I had a precise direction instead, like a cone. The fastness, layering and air between sounds is what won me over compared to the 650. Don't get me wrong though, the 650 is wonderful with a heavier sound and on the Jot it did extremely well, but this hobby is about preference and the 400i took it for my purposes.

Another issue is that I enjoy lower listening levels, and with the 400i at a low volume I can get every detail, enjoyable bass and not miss a thing. This is not so with the 650 as I have to crank that thing up. As far as veil goes in one game, BO3 Zombies, there is an announcer over the loud speaker that sounds fantastic and when comparing the 650 to the 400i the 650 had a bit of a veil on it, like a softening and I knew I was listening to a recording. The 400i made the announcer sound realistic and the feeling I was there immersed me well. The sound effects and happenings in zombies mode were more detailed with layering and space in between them, albeit with less bass across the lower/midrange as the only drawback I felt compared to the 650. The softness did have its strength on the 650 though, as it was a damn good toe tappin' headphone.

I'm not saying the 650 is bad, or bad out of the jot esp balanced - but for my ears and listening level preference the 400i takes the cake. Also, don't pay retail for the 400i - razerdog has open box for 320-330 I believe. Also, as far as scaling goes - I enjoyed a great increase in SQ on the 400i going from 4490/A2 to Modi Multibit/Jot SE and eventually balanced. Also, this is typical Dynamic vs Planar stuff they are both great headphones. As always, YMMV but try this:

 

@Pillars - Interesting post about the comparison between HD650 and 400i for gaming (and with the EQ).

I had found the previous posts so foreign to my experiences with the two headphones, I was intrigued. I tried to imagine, but couldn't. To make sense of it - to me - it just came down to you having a personal preference very different than mine.

I didn't even consider gaming use. (Not one of my interests, much to the dismay of my step-son.)

 

My unit arrived a day ago and I've benn listening to it for some time now (HD650 stock and after warming up). Clarity and transparency and especially bass is impressive. The sound doesn't come out of the drivers anymore but just from somewhere out of the headphones. What bothers me though is the treble which is quite piercing, especially with treble heavy recording. I've listened to a lot of 70s and 80s music which often has hot treble but I've only used excellent recordings, not some shitty compressed remasters.
Michael Jackson - Bad (Japanese original CD release) (sibilance in "Bad" and listen to the slight rythmic "ting - ting" sound of the drumkit in the background.)
Joy Division - Closer (from Japanese 4 CD box) (listen to "heart and sssssoul")
The Cure - Seventeen Seconds (German original CD release)
Duran Duran - Rio (some good old CD) the beginning of "new religion" sound like opening a gass zylinder right next to the eardrum)
and similar...
My lineup is a "raspi+hifiberrydigi+ipower" via coax into a "Meier Corda Daccord" into the amp. The only other amyps I'm familiar with are a Meier Corda Jazz and a Valhalla2 so my experience is rather limited.

This morning I've been reading through this thread and found Psalmanazar his post which sums it up very nicley for me. Maybe I should try an Asgard 2.

 

So now that we've had 45 pages of Jot gossip / hype / impressions its time for the official Josh Mo Report (TM @k4rstar ) . I had the phono jot in the house for 5 days as part of the fantastic SBAF loaner program. Big ups to my main man Jason of Schiit.

Will skip all the fit / feel / weight / warmth impressions - well documented enough. Schiit makes solid well built products.

Plugged Jotun into Gingnir Multibit via XLR and used a variety of cans all balanced, skipped SE. For frame of reference my everyday head amp is a EC BW (leans slightly on warm side). I found the amp to work very differently depending on the amp pairing. So rather than general amp impressions, I am going to list subjective impressions from pairings in order from best pairing to worst.

HD650 / HD580
This was the first setup I tried, and first impression was "wow, i cant believe this sounds soooo good for a $400 amp". Sounded super clean, fast, easy and natural. Very wide sound stage, not a ton of height, but similar to other schiit products. What I really enjoyed about this pairing is the forward presentation, it takes the laid back HD650 and pushes it forward toward the stage a few rows. I thought separation and imaging was a strong suit here. Tight accurate bass, warm pleasant mids (if not a bit hazy) were still there, and just a hint of brightness, which I think actually helps HD650 smooth nature to sound more resolving. No fatigue, just easy to listen for hours. You'll see more into this later, but the warmer, wetter, laid back characteristics of hd650, paired with leaner, drier, forward Jot creates a wonderful combination. Slightly less magic with hd580 as its a bit drier and more neutral, but still great pair. I assume with hd600 you will get similar results.

I would highly recommend this amp to anyone with HD6x0, I could hear the natural synergy, the magic, or the aptly named G Factor (Jot / HD650 will touch your G Spot).

This is where things took a turn for the worse with me.

HE6
Jotunheim can drive the HE6. Does it drive them well? Not exactly. I do not hear the nuanced detail, the tights mids or low end impact. HE6 lost its fun factor, veiled is overused term, but works here. Because HE6 is a more "wet" sounding can, overall sound sig is more neutral when driven by drier Jot. This combo works in a pinch, but like most headphone amps HE6 wants more.

HD800
I have fully modded 800's (sdr resonator, cork mod, and sbaf rug liner) and this was not the pairing I was hoping for. Simply too bright and lack of substance / texture. Beginning to see Jot's leaner overall characteristics, 800 sounded a but thin, missing the body that ive grown to love. Both Jot / HD800 are capable of better, just apart from each other.

HE560
To me this was the biggest disappointment (probably because I was really digging the combo with BW). I've recently come to enjoy this headphone alot, but there is the opposite of G Factor here. The 560 sounded dry, lean, flat and boring. Some will say this is just how he560 sounds, but I've heard it sing on good pairings. My conclusion is that the leaner, drier nature of the jot does not pair well with a drier leaner can like the 560. 560 needs right pair to balance it out. Just the opposite of the hd650 pair, with hd650 being warmer, wetter, laid back can -> pairing with drier leaner amp resulting in great neutral sound.

Overall
Jot is a fantastic amp in the price range, but didn't work well with many of the headphones I currently own. But I would buy just to listen to the magic that happens with hd650. Its really really good with those. At first I thought Jot was transparent, but its slightly v shaped at times, can hazy in the mids at others, or bassy and powerful depending on the headphone. Hard to drive hifimans aren't probably what this amp was designed for. HD800 not pairing well was surprising, but after learning of brighter, leaner nature it all made sense. I am sure there are lots more headphones this pairs well with, Elear, ZMF's, Audeze all come to mind.

PS - I tried out the phono pre and found it to be pretty good. Didn't find it as resolving as my Sutherland ph3d, but certainly a capable little unit. Definitely better than magni impressions that I've read.

Edit: forgot to thank SBAF loaner program. This community is awesome. Thanks to Schiit, Marv, sphinxvc, and velvetx for helping average hobbiests help shape community opinion of new gear!

 

Oh, weird, I am really enjoying my HE560, balanced out of the Jot. It's the very newest revision, so free of the funny driver vibration issues and things, but I haven't even change the pads, much less modify it. I just stuck a good-quality balanced copper cable (a FAW one, very pretty it is, too) on there, and off I went.

It is certainly leaner than my stock HD650 (which is one of the reasons that I bought the 560, for contrast and options), but I'm not finding it "dry" per se, it still feels like a very listenable headphone, and I've found it quite a relaxing listen.

Given that I tend to gravitate to warmer, more forgiving sounds, I suspect that for some reason, what I am getting is less lean than what you're getting. I'm really enjoying how snappy the sub-bass is on orchestral stuff, too- the Jot doesn't seem shy about going down low when the occasion demands it.

 

I just have a cheap balanced cable on a older stock he560. Also using stock pads, although I plan to switch to focus a's to tame the treble. I am also hardcore about my love for warm leaning gear. Just trying to establish our similarities.

What I heard with Jot wasn't very different than what I've heard HE560 sound like on a lot of different amps. General consensus on HE560 is that it driest of the headphones in the hifiman lineup, and I just thought the combo was too much for my tastes. It certainly is easy to listen to, i just couldnt help but think about what i was missing. Switching from Jot to BW, he560 became lush, snappy, and more transparent.

Not trying to disqualify what you hear, but what other amps have you heard he560 with? As often happens, I think its frame of reference, I'm just coming at it from a different angle than you are. BW is neutral SS amp, but almost takes on some warmer liquid characteristics of tube amps.

 

Does anyone have impressions of a THX00 with the Jot?

 

I quite like this combination. It's my daily driver for work where semi-closed headphones are more functional than open cans. To me it's balanced (tilted towards fun but not out of control), dynamic, resolving, very powerful down low, and a lot of fun. I think the Dekoni sheepskin pads do a tiny bit to balance out the recessed mids of the TH-X00 (http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...stex-x-massdrop-th-x00.628/page-32#post-86515) and the Jot does a little bit there too with its forward character.

 

I just recently got a pair of TH-X00, listening out of Jot. Still early days, and can't compare to any other desktop amp at the moment, but I agree with @philipmorgan in general. I am really liking the TH-X00, and the Jot is doing just fine.

 

Does anyone know if using a bifrost as a dac .. and the jotunheim with a balanced lcd-2... would be a balanced system .. or would i have to buy the Dac card addon to be truly balanced?

 

The Bifrost has single ended outs, so your chain would not be entirely balanced. However, many of us use single-ended DACs with the Jotunheim and have no issue with it. I prefer the Modi Multibit over the internal DAC, which is balanced. There's more to the sound equation than simply making sure every component is balanced.

 

I just replaced my Bifrost Multibit Mojo 2 chain with the Jot and even with my stock HD650 I think I'm missing some warmth. I never thought I'd say that the 650 is now a bit too bright?!.

Would using Modi Multibit instead of the internal DAC bring back some of the warmth and dial the treble sharpness back a bit?

Thanks!