Feliks-Audio Elise Tube Amp Review (NOT)

@Marvey Not trying to convince anyone that I am 'right' and they are 'wrong'. I also won't try to make excuses. I'm fully aware that I'm not operating the tubes at 'optimal' values. I am not the most knowledgeable person on tubes, but I try to learn.

Yea, I put 6C33C in my Elise. Did it sound good? No.
Tried running 1626. Did it sound good? By most standards, no. I liked the midbass, but everything else was bad.
Tried running EL3N. Did it sound good? God no. It was awful.
Tried running 6C8G. TERRIBLE.

I see you're running 6080 and not the stock 6H13C tubes, so you can't be that much against rolling a new couple of tubes. I do enjoy my 5998, which are 6AS7 equivalents (stock tubes). Surely you can't be opposed to that. 6H13C aren't terrible, but of course they're not going to use 5998 for a production version. Is my presumption correct that you largely see nothing wrong in using 5998? This is just a guess. FWIW I also like my Mullard 6080.

So what DO I like? I like my 6N7G. I guess the question really is, is it possible that 6N7G optimal values are close to 6SN7? I don't know, I'm not an expert on reading datasheets. I just skimmed through both sheets, and I see that plate voltage under 'typical' operations are both 250V. Maybe they are somewhat similar? I'd very much like some input on how similar they are.

Why don't I just buy a better amp with the tubes I like? Sure, I'd definitely like to do that. When I first ordered my Elise I had no idea I'd end up spending 2k$ on more tubes. I was very much against buying other tubes. I ended up buying some ECC31 and haven't really stopped buying tubes since. I DO also plan to build my own amp, @OJneg has sent me some schematics he drew for me. I haven't really had any time to dedicate to this project yet however. I plan to do it this summer -- hopefully I can find time. Right now, I'm treating it as a learning platform.

Lastly, I apologize if I appeared like a troll. I don't see myself as part of the 'Elise Cult', largely going against the stream at this point.

 

Haven't really entered the Elise or rolling discussion up until this point. But that profile picture, I swear to god it has something to do with the intial reaction you recieved.

I came off as very edgy when I first started posting with this great picture. I swapped it out to a beloved cat of my childhood (going with the mainstream theme here) and all of the sudden I was met by a different tone. I don't think it's a coinsidence that you've been accused of coming to show us the light or teaching us the great ways of tube rolling with Elise. I think it's your picture combined with your timing.

Just some observations and tinfoil theories.

 

I think it had more to do with the fact that he came in on the heels of @hypnos1's long-winded (!) and patronizing posts.

 

Just went back and looked at it. It seems quite likely, didn't go that far back. Only lurked in this thread every now and then.

 

Indeed, Elise is one of the most beautiful (visually) amps I ever saw (regardless of the price).

 

For some this is not enough.

 

Hi there,

I have read this for a while and just wanted to ask about the amp itself (no tube changing or anything).

To the person who created this topic, do you think this amp is good enough to drive 600ohm headphones? Does it pair well with the T1?

Also, I saw Glenn (and a waiting list) mentioned, could some clarify a little bit more about this please? (even PM if it's considered off topic).

 

LOL

 

The output impedance is 45?? I thought it would be the same as the plate resistance of the power tubes. 6080 has a plate resistance of 280 ohm and since each channel uses two triodes, the output impedance would be 140 ohm. This is not the case?

 

I had to find the post around the pic posted by @nephilim . I found it:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/12030#post_12664776

Not a single word of this epic post is to be missed. I was amazed to find out this carefully engineered marvel of audiophile wizardry beats the Zana Deux. Wow! Clearly then, 6 tube adapters later we should easily wind up in EC Studio territory.

I mean, Jesus H. This has got to be a joke right? Please tell me the joke is on me for not getting it.

 

So tropical!!! Jungle, even!!!

 

This is not a joke. This is the definition of being retarded.

 

Just a precious little flower proclaiming to the rest of the flower bed.

 

Wowsers. I think that's the same guy that had some conspiracy theory about TH-X00...

Edit: Yeah, it is...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/788776/fostex-x-massdrop-th-x00-review/1710#post_12140383

 

Not necessarily. Are you familiar with the circuit? The circuit could be using negative feedback to reduce the output impedance and achieve better performance.

 

Alien galaxy jungle!

 

This sounds excellent, thank you for your post.

What's the wait time like at the moment? How would you rate it in it's price to performance ratio as sifting through the internet across various forums (ignoring tube rolling/experimentation) it seems like a steal at its price point.

Would like to read further impressions if anyone is familiar with the amp (using the stock tubes).

Has anyone compared it to the Schiit Valhalla 2?

Also a question about the output impedance, it seems like the Elise's 45 ohm output is enough for the 600 ohm T1's but is there are more in depth explanation as to why it pairs so well given the ohm difference? Apologies for the very newbie questions.

 

I don't mean to be a total dick, but those little numbers at the bottom of the thread will take you to previous pages in the thread. If you go waaaaaaay back to #1 (http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/feliks-audio-elise-tube-amp-review-not.2260/) you'll find an answer to this question.

 

45 is pretty high and I'd not expect good results with low impedance planars, etc. But, I think it's something like this.

Say, this amp:
1. Creates 12 volts out. (no clue what it really is, just pretend)
2. Your T1 has an impedance of 400 ohm at 50Hz, and an impedance of 700ohm at 5 kHz (no clue what it really is, but it's not constant).
3. The amp has an output impedance of 45 ohm. (I guess that's what it is.)

Then:
1. At 50 Hz, the voltage across the T1 is about 10.8V
2. At 5 kHz, the voltage across the T1 is about 11.3V

Not so bad. That works out to something like a 0.3dB difference between 50 Hz and 5 kHz.

By contrast take a 32 Ohm Grado, how about. I mean as long as we're talking about Beyer here, why not throw in Grado, right? So say it has a 50 Ohm impedance at 5kHz and a 20 Ohm impedance at 50 Hz. Again, no clue what it really is.

Then:
1. At 50 Hz, the voltage across the Grado is about 3.7V.
2. At 5 kHz, the voltage across the Grado is about 6.3V.

Ok, now, there's more like a 5db difference between the treble and lower bass. Additionally these lower impedance phones aren't dissipating as much power.

So if you want to approach constant voltage output, you'd be best off having low amplifier output impedance or at least an output impedance that is a smaller fraction of the total.

Then again, everything I just said could be entirely wrong.