300b Tube Compendium

I had WE 300's with my stock Studio B and they had noise problems so I wound up returning them, but from my brief audition I would need more wetness to get the Studio B to the tone that I'm looking for.

 

I have thought about it yes, it's just a significant investment. I have @Josh Schor modded version wtih the following mods:

Dueland copper/silver interstage caps installed 0.01
Kozmo 50kohm top of the line shunt pot
Mercury 83 tube power supply, work done by Craigs Tech

So not the Muse ES caps but not stock either.

 

Yeah one of my sets is noisier than the other. Although weirdly they are less noisy in the Glenn vs the Envy.

 

Another option would be adding a good OTL preamp into the 300b. I usually use our Decware OTL for that but others would work as well.

 

the interstage caps could be changed to all copper dueland

 

FWIW, I bought @Josh Schor 's WE300b's and they were a marked improvement over the Linlai Cossor's that I had been running (I agree with your "dry/lifeless" characterization of the Studio B/Cossor combo)

 

@dasman66 I wish I got those WE tubes! I bought WE 300b tubes for my stock Studio B and they both were noisy with weird rubbery squeaking sounds among the noises. But Josh's WE 300b tubes were made specifically for the Studio B. Very cool!

There must be other options for wet tubes though, I mean look how long that list is of 300b tubes! I'm thinking about the Sophia Electric Classic 300b tubes right now. But I have no idea really, there are so many choices.

That's where you guys come in!

 

Of the tubes I've tried which isn't many the one I found to be the lushest and wettest sounding on my Studio B were the JJs. Though the price for these seem to have gone up quite a bit the past year or so and not something I would consider at it's current pricing.

 

Thanks. What other 300B tubes have you tried?

 

I’m currently using a pair of linlai e300 and have used a pair of jjs prior to that. Also tried a pair of acme and some black tube chinese made 300b. The jjs are the lushest of the lot. I do prefer a more neutral tonality for my zmfs thus my linlai purchase but they are definitely drier than the jjs to my ears but at almost 400 dollars a pair for the jjs I’m not sure I’ll make that purchase again.

 

Giving some impressions of 300B tubes I've tried. Chain used is Yggdrasil A2 -> EC Studio Jr. -> Utopia

Electro Harmonix 300B - I really liked this tube. Tonally the most balanced of the 300Bs I've used so far. Liquid presentation and just gets out of the way to present the music. To my ears, the midrange is a bit more recessed than the Chinese tubes, but I feel it works well with the lower mid forwardness of the Utopia. Driver control was great with the EH being able to rein in the overly dynamic/overshoot-y tendencies of the Utopia. Ironically, it's not as warm as the Chinese tubes, but in terms of timbre, I felt it had less of the metallic sheen associated with the Focal drivers. The downside is one of the EH tubes died on me after less than 2 weeks of use. Reviews online have been mixed about the quality control on these tubes.

PSVane 300B (standard white base) - As @Lickumms mentioned, really weird and lean bass response. The highs are sparkly, but it feels forced in a way like turning the contrast setting to high. Mids are more upfront, with more grain. The Chinese tubes seems to have this dry and grainy presentation to them. The PSVane seems more detailed than the EH, but in an unnatural way. There's less space in between instruments and there's a warm hue to the sound.

TJ Full Music - Similar to the PSVane except in the bass. Bass has more slam and presence compared to the leaner PSVane. Mids and highs are similar. The TJ, maybe just a bit more resolving and smoother, but overall, there are more similarities to the presentation than differences. It's very high contrast in an unnatural way. Midrange grain is less on the TJ's than the PSVane, but it's still there. Overall, a more grand sounding version of the PSVane, but it still shares this vintage hued, oversharpened character.

 

ELROG ER300B-Mo impressions



Chain used is Schiit Yggdrasil A2 -> Eddie Current Studio Jr. -> Focal Utopia

The first thing I noticed about these were the lack of grain across the spectrum. The Chinese 300Bs, such as the PSVanes and TJ Full Musics, both had this grainy and dry quality to the mids. The Elrogs are smooth and completely free of this. That is not to say that the Elrogs sacrifice detail for this smoothness. Far from it. These are the most resolving 300B I've had so far, but they don't shove the detail in your face. It's all there for you to hear if you want to search for it, but these do it in a very cohesive manner. In terms of placement, vocals on the ER300B are placed a bit further back compared to the upfront Chinese tubes. I would say the Electro Harmonix is probably farther back in the mix, but the Elrogs have the more realistic staging. Dynamics and speed are right up there, but I really love how controlled they are with the Utopias. There's no overshoot-y behavior here, but it retains the Utopias first class dynamics and transient response. The ER300B makes it quite easy to follow the rhythm and beat of the music, as if there is a line in the middle which you can draw on. Bass goes quite low, with tightness and precision unlike the usual flabbiness in other 300Bs. Highs are extended, but never harsh. I don't find any of the "metallic" timbre of the Utopias showing through here, but at the same time, it doesn't do it by adding any extra warmth or euphony to the sound. It's closer to a solid-state sound, as what you would find on other 300Bs which lean on that warm, organic tone. Imaging and placement of stage is quite impressive, with each individual element easily found in proper space. Whereas the Chinese tubes tended to compress the stage towards the middle, the ER300B has a more spherical stage. It's not the widest in terms of lateral width, but images are more "solid" and perceptible, rather than diffuse because of this. Tonal balance is very neutral, with none of the warm leaning tendencies of other 300Bs. You can almost mistake this for another tube. You get the feeling that Elrog didn't just want to copy the WE300B here, but give their own modern interpretation of it. Technically, this is clearly levels above the Electro Harmonix and Chinese tubes.



Build quality is excellent, as it should given the price. At $3380, this is the most expensive 300B I know, outside of NOS WE300Bs. The glass is thick, and there is a nice heft to the build. The modern aesthetic really lends well to the sound character of these tubes. It comes with some basic measurements of the tubes themselves, but not to the extent of the WE300B or the Full Musics which come with a more comprehensive spec sheet. Elrog has a 1 year warranty on these tubes as long as you get them from authorized dealers.



The big question is "are they worth it?" If you must have the best of the best, but dislike the general warmpoo 300B sound, I feel that the Elrogs have achieved that. That being said, the asking price is already worth an amp or two. I don't feel the Electro Harmonix tube is THAT far off the Elrogs, but if you must scratch that itch for the final few points of improvement, then consider the ER300B a safe buy. The best thing I can say about these is I did not find myself picking out flaws in what I heard or tuning out of disinterest in the music. I was completely glued to whatever I was listening to at hand.

* I was originally supposed to get the regular ER300B, but the local dealer no longer had stock of them and so I was pointed towards getting the Molybdenum version, which is twice as expensive. From what I understand, the standard version has the same general character, but the Mo improves on it by a bit with the use of the Molybdenum plate.

* I have not heard the WE300Bs as the local distributor was not able to secure my order for it. However, the guy I got the Elrogs from is sort of a local tube Jedi here in our part of the world. He's tried almost every 300B tube under the sun. His top 3 were the Elrogs, the WE300B and the Takatsukis. The Elrogs were his favorite pick as he felt they were closer to the 845 tube sound (which were his preferred tubes). The WE300B and the Takatsukis are more of the general 300B tube character. Take that as you will.

 

Hi all.
I'm posting on an existing thread, A) to keep it going B) because lots of people will hopefully see it C) it's relevant anyway.

Here's my recent experience (I have expensive tube amps, but I buy inexpensive tubes) - not looking for a critique of my purchasing decisions - just your impressions on sub $100 tubes I'm discussing, and others like them

Golden Dragon 300b mesh plates. On the amp when I got them. A little 'mushy' in the bass, but so warm and generous sounding I loved them. No harsh elements at all. No longer made from what I can see.
PS Vane 300b hifi series (approx $40-$50 each). Replaced the above. ''hifi series is right''. I'd say if you were moving to a 300b amp from something else you'll like them - they are linear, detailed and clear. I got used to that warm, generous bass and mid-bass, and I want it back. These are going to become spares , and all of the following are in budget (your experiences with them, and others in similar price ranges very welcome.

Giugang 4300b (Giugang western electric equivalent). Giugang bought by PSvane I understand. Super cheap. $40 ea
Golden Voice 4300b Even cheaper. $35 ea

I've dismissed the above as ''just too cheap ??''

Linlai 300b-z (black glass) - about $100 ea (near top of budget)
Linlai 300b-n (mesh plates) about $70 ea


Two questions - what sub $100 300b tube on Ali would you go for, if you wanted thick lush warm mid-bass? (and the usual benefits)
- Western Electric tube equivalents - will they work in any 300b amp? - anything weird or wonderful about them?

Would respectfully request not to concentrate on -
1) expensive tubes I will never buy
2) criticism of country of origin (racism?)
3) criticism of someone buying in a price range lower than yours.

Thank you all.


Bonus question *!*
An old trusted companion I used to know more than 10 years ago wrote the following article. He's a legend in my eyes.
He likes the TJ mesh plate. I've found ''similar branding, but it's changed over the years'' on Aliexpress. Anyone know if this tube can be bought sub, or around $100 USD from china direct websites?

300B Shootout! by Thorsten Loesch

Sorry for the long post.
Hope it encourages people in general to talk about affordable 300b tube variants and their experience.
I'm tired of reading about $500-$1000 tubes.

 

Not a bad idea. I’ve considered doing this kind of thing too, although $100 and below is maybe too ambitious for me. Still, I get it, I also am the kind of person who likes to tube roll and isn’t bugged by doing so (others are), so if you can find a worthwhile pair for that cheap, it feels like a treasure hunt.

The thing about Ali is that they capture the full range of the output of these often times very large OEM manufacturing plants over there, so that’s why you can find sub-brands like Linlai Global or even something like “hifi-amplifiers.com,” which, while they are still domestic operations offering essentially the same tubes you can find on Ali, have a business model that claims selection of the “best” tubes of those plants’ output. It really does beg the question, though, of how audible the difference is when you can find ostensibly the same tubes on Ali for many times cheaper.

Anyway, the only one I can offer any info on in this price range is that the humble/ubiquitous Shuguang 300B-98 red/brown base, which is pretty solid for the money. Kind of airy and delineated, in its own way, and just overall has its own character that doesn’t sound like other tubes. Could be worth building some synergy around.

 

I believe Shuguang has stopped making tubes for several years so all available may be old stock. Linlai (not “Global”) also issues a “98”. My understanding is that Linlai consists of alumni from Psvane which consists of alumni from Shuguang.

 

Hi Internethandle

We all have opinions, so I thought I'd share my own on something I consider an internet myth .. the .... ''different quality'' for different sections of the globe. It implies that a manufacturer ''goes and gets the bad box of bits'' when they are manufacturing for a domestic market (?). If something smells a bit fishy... it's probably a fish (!)

Isn't more realistic that the product is exactly the same, and they adjust the price to suit the pockets of the country. If it costs $20 to manufacture, and you can get $40 for it in China but $150 in America and £150 in the UK, and you have the manufacturing capability to satisfy all markets - does it not make more logical sense that the product is identical (save for packaging) and the packaging is changed to suit a different market/provide some differentiation?

I find plenty of ali-express sellers happy to match output specs of tubes, and had no issues with the KT88, EL34 and 300B tubes I've bought so far. So we can discount shipping issues. Aliexpress also has a refund policy.

When people argue with me, I have to look at the why, as well as the argument I get back on the topic. Often, someone has just ''shelled-out'' twice or three times as much for the same tube in their country and is looking to justify their purchase decision, or perhaps support a local supplier by criticising a china-direct model.

It's my view (and this whole post is an opinion piece) that whether you're talking about a 300b tube, or a $15,000 line magnetic amplifier - if it looks the same, it is the same on Aliexpress.

''There are fakes'' ? maybe, just maybe. More likely, it's the same tube, the same factory, and a different box to support what I'm saying which is it's the same product being sold at different prices in different markets.

NB Here's that Shuguang tube for about £40 ($50?)
2024 new Shuguang 300B-98 Red/White Base (300B-98B,300BS-B,300B-T,WE300B) Matched Pair Amplifier HIFI Audio Vacuum Tubes - AliExpress 44

 

Yes, I'm also skeptical of the idea that the "discerning" audiophiles of the west are provided the cream of the crop by "Chi-Fi" manufacturers vs. the lowly domestic listeners. It just doesn't make a ton of logical sense that those tube manufacturers, based in China who are ostensibly audiophiles themselves, are giving themselves and those they know the "bad" tubes and everyone else the "good" ones.

 

Could be. If you read between the lines with some of the Linlai/Psvane/Shuguang/etc. tubes, they seem to be made in the same plant or at the least with similar processes (a lot of crossover with tubes that appear or are descriptively functionally identical but are branded interchangeably with Psvane or Linlai, or Shuguang, or a bunch of other monikers). Anyway, yeah, with the amount of tubes Shuguang produced, I'm sure there's plenty of old stock to go around.

 

I hope this chain of thought is interesting. I thought so, simply wanted to share.

I've been thinking a little about the word ''fakes'' in relation to tubes. Vacuum tubes seem remarkably difficult to make. For the longest time I only remember 3 factories.... they were - Svetlana (russian). EI (Serbia), and Shuguang (China)

Now in all of China, there are just 3 factories of any size or note - (1 in the 90s remember)

The bit below is from a Copilot search:

• Shuguang:
  
  • Brands: Shuguang, Psvane, and Valve Art.
    
    
  • Notable Tubes: Shuguang 300B, Psvane 300B, Valve Art 300B.
    

• Linlai:
  
  • Brands: Linlai, Linlai Global.
    
    
  • Notable Tubes: Linlai 300B, Linlai Global Elite 300B.
    

• TJ Full Music:

• Brands: TJ Full Music.
  
  
• Notable Tubes: TJ Full Music 300B, TJ Full Music 300B/n.

I then did a wider search, and found two other very small factories in China:
Looking at the websites of these two companies - they are manufacturers of industrial equipment, and do an occasional tube, but they are not REALLY tube factories. Have a look, see what you think

- [SETEC](https://www.setecvac.com/)
- [High Hope International Inc.](https://www.njhighhope.com/)



So, I guess my ''interesting thought is just this'' - if there are loads of fakes out there, Chinese companies knocking off other chinese brands (?) - where are they making them? - or is it what I thought and there aren't fakes, just the same tubes being sold cheaper locally in more bland boxes?