Balanced to single-ended converter (XLR to RCA / BAL to SE)

Discussion in 'DIY' started by purr1n, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Its' my understanding that the Cinemag CMLI-600/600C sounds better than the CMLI-15/15B but the 600's can't be driven by all DAC's. And I also thought the Yggdrasil og/A2 was fine with the 600's.

    Does anyone here have experience with the 600's and the Yggdrasil A2/og to comment on whether they work together?

    Anyone think the two sound the same and I should go with the CMLI-15/15B so that it will work with all DAC/s I might try in the future?

    Thanks for any tips or advice.
     
  2. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    *Your* 600/600C run just fine off my Yggdrasil A2/OG. Having said that, I haven't compared to others so I don't know if there's a better fit.
     
  3. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

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    The CMLI-15/15B sounded quite better to me with the A2/OG than the Jensen Radial twin ISO 1:1 600Ohm. With the Gungnir A2, the Radial sounded better.
     
  4. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    I really like the Lundahl LL1690’s with the A2 Yggdrasil. Transparent enough while adding a bit of sweetness. Full frequency and no roll off or distortion on the low end as far as i can tell with LCD-XC’s. I do use EQ to boost sub bass, gotta have that ghost chest thump.
     
  5. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    So I was under the impression that the Cinemag CMLI-600/600C transformers were the best sounding for this application, but seeing the post above planted a seed and I've read really good things about Lindhal and Audio Note transformers. Would they work for this and sound better than the Cinemag CMLI-600/600C?

    Just curious.
     
  6. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    I know @dsavitsk likes Lundahl, he used custom ones for OPT's in his T4 and i found out about the LL1690 through one of his old posts. Then again @purr1n thinks Lundahl is overpriced... So maybe just try for yourself :)
     
  7. peef

    peef Friend

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    I've tested the LL1544A against the CMLI 15/15b pretty extensively with a couple of amps. My preference is also for the Lundahls, with the caveat that the 1544A sounds absolutely miserable if there is any DC on the winding at all, and that every DC coupled source that I've measured had too much DC for to be a good choice. It's worth measuring your source.

    I haven't tried any of the larger core Lundahl inputs, such as the 1690. I think this is the way to go. The 1544A is much smaller than the 1690 and as such is much easier to magnetize (really, 1mV is enough!). By contrast, I find the 15/15b is not objectionable, but not nearly as resolving. The 15/15b is much more tolerant of DC. I really wonder if this isn't why you see the odd negative comment on Lundahls-- maybe we're inadvertently magnetizing them.

    If shielding doesn't matter, Cinemag's nickel quadrifilar output transformers work well. They have much higher level handling I've asked Cinemag to send me the coil and laminations separately so that I can assemble them with a butt gap, giving better linearity and DC tolerance at the expense of lower impedance-- lower than the CMLI-600/600C.

    Measuring the winding resistance is often enough to magnetize the transformer. There's a good writeup by Whitlock on how to demagnetize them (https://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Audio-Transformers-Chapter.pdf, section 4.2). I've done this using REW or Audacity as a signal generator, and connecting the transformer to the output of an amp.
     
  8. dsavitsk

    dsavitsk Friend

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    Overpriced is in the eye of the beholder. When I designed my original L2, I tried both Lundahl ad Cinemag IPTs My view, and the view of a few people who tested it for me, was that the amp using the Lundahl amorphous sounded good enough to sell. The cinemag one didn't. And fwiw, there was one Lundahl I also didn't like enough to use - I think it was the1592. There are other cinemags for other uses that I think are fine transformers and that I have used (the CMOQ series for instance, which I listen to regularly) though I still think the equivalent Lundahls sound better.
     
  9. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    Has anyone compared any of those converters to the conversion of the Schiit Freya S?

    One of the official features of the Nexus circuit is the seamless conversion between the SE and BAL signals so I wonder how it fairs against dedicated converters.
     
  10. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Yeah for me Lundahl is probably the cheaper(or at least equivalent) option since i live in the EU. Used the 1690 twice with great success. Then again i also had some Cinemag's in one of your T3's and i really liked that amp as well. Think those were custom spec by you though? Or was that only for the T4 with the Lundahl's?

    Think i spoke to you about this before and it's not a direct comparison so take that fwiw. But i liked the Yggdrasil a1 going into a pair of 1690's into a Saga into my active speakers better than Yggdrasil going straight into Freya-S and then speakers. There was a sweetness in the first one that was sorely needed with the A1. Now i have an A2 and it might be fine i cannot say, so have some salt ready.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Two things:
    1. One should not confuse broad strokes statements I have made as applying to everything
    2. USD to EURO exchange rate as of July 17, 2022: the Lundahl lineup is now a lot more competitive with respect to price, a lot more.
    upload_2022-7-17_10-38-12.png
     
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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Generally a good transformer will be more transparent (less sins of omission) for summing duties than Freya S. It's just a matter of picking the right one as all transformers are colored just the Freya S (or any active preamp) is colored.
     
  13. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Yeah your quote was from a while ago, maybe 1 to 2 years idk…
     
  14. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Trying out Freya+ Jfet mode for summing and it's not half bad. Also not having the signal from the A2 go through the switch box first and then to Freya has a positive effect for 2 channel listening.
    Listening i find the extension on the extremes better with Freya but overal it sounds a bit smoother(glossed over slightly) with the transformers.
    This is something i actually looked for with my Clears but for the XC's i don't really need it. Might actually keep it but the remote is a bit limp dick, the amps are behind me around the corner so with another remote i can just fire backwards into a mirror and it's all good. Doesn't work with this one maybe the batteries are weak but i suspect the recessed ir receiver on Freya is the problem. Am thinking IR extender or something.
     
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  15. cbarth

    cbarth New

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    I just ordered a pair of Lundal LL1948 transformers. But I am wondering about something. I have seen some schematics where it is used a parallel resistor and a zobel on the output of the transformers. I have Jensen PO-2XR transformers and they don't seem to have it. When is it recomended to use it and how do you calculate it?
     
  16. Johnny Opps

    Johnny Opps Facebook Friend

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    So, I'm probably in the "this is too hard" camp, though with some time on my hands I guess I could try. I understand that it's not terribly complex, and I probably could manage it. But before I start in on it... is there any less expensive alternative to the Radial unit that might be recommendable? For instance, 2 of the the Rapco Horizon Blox inline 600 ohm isolators (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...inline-xlr-isolator-1-channel-line-isolator)?

    Thanks for all your help...
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    That's a line isolator. It doesn't do BAL->SE. If you want to go passive (transformer coupled) BAL to SE conversation, there really isn't a cheaper way unless you go with some China eBay specials. I suspect some of these could be on-par with the Jenson and Cinemags, but no one has tried yet.
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    This is a good alternative to the Radial that won't stretch the wallet.
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DTI--art-dti-2-channel-hum-eliminator
     
  19. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Well I bought this (amazon.de) long ago and promptly returned it. I found it terrible, SQ wise and it hummed for certain sources/inputs. I now own a radial+adapter cable, as recommended by purr1n top post. No issues whatsoever, sounds great.. :)
     
  20. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Really? I have a couple other ART passive DI's and have never had issues, though I don't have the one that I linked specifically. Also, I've only ever used them in gig situations, so in those cases I'm really more concerned with something that simply works or gets rid of ground gremlins rather than sonic quality.
     

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