HD800 "French Mod" aka "SuperDupont Resonator"

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by sorrodje, Jan 17, 2016.

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  1. whipped

    whipped New

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    Yes but I just did a simple experiment with a paper sticker but have ended up really liking the result. With my HD800 the 6Khz peak always seemed similar (with my old ears) to the 5Khz. So...it could be that the paper is just lowering the 6Khz peak enough for me to hear a real difference whilst someone with younger ears may not be that affected. Hope that makes sense..the older you are the steeper the rolloff. Also the placebo effect is very powerful so what I am about to write may just be rubbish. I 'think' I hear more subtle detail in the midrange and top end but a glockenspiel piece definitely had less air (you know how they naturally 'ring'- that was reduced.
     
  2. Hong An Truong

    Hong An Truong New

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    Sorrodje, can you upload a picture with rugliner + French mod?
     
  3. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Rugliner is always the same than I what I did a long time ago. No change.

    Here's the piece of rugliner and how it fits in My HD800

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. dubiousmike

    dubiousmike Friend

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    My shure tips arrived, and unfortunately third party amazon sellers purporting to sell the old version are evidently not to be trusted. I basically paid a $5 premium to purchase the widely available white screen version.

    That quibble aside, I just implemented the french mod, and it is indeed amazing - thank you so much sorrodje for sharing this!

    I decided to go ahead and follow SKiring's lead and to remove the tubes, since I can't imaging an earwax screen is going to do anything good for the sound. The result, even if it doesn't measure quite as nicely as the original olives with tubes in, is marvelous. No question the 6k peak is reduced, timbre is subtlety improved across the board, all without any noticeable negative side effects. My anax mod derivative inserts are officially retired.

    I was a little worried about the process of removing the fabric screens, but for reference, this takes absolutely minimal force/effort. If you lightly press near the outer edge, it easily comes loose. I grabbed the edge with a pair of tweezers and gently peeled it half off, pushed in the cut tips and lightly pressed it back down against the adhesive. Done.

    Listening to Muddy Waters MFSL via my Yggdrasil and mainline right now, and his guitar now has just the perfect amount of bite. Time to pop a Ballast Point Grapefruit Sculpin (possibly the best IPA ever) and celebrate!

    :piratemug:
     
  5. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    HD800 FM vs LAST ATTEMPT.jpg

    The bunch of colored FR is the full set of measurements I made to build the the Avg one you can see in the first page. besided the tamed 6khz , they all show another effet : see sub bass extension ;) . White FR is my last attempt. As you can see , the original mods tames the 6khz, enhances a bit high mids and bass extension... exactly what does the HD800S. I never achieved that kind of result with other attempts. Ok, those mesuremetns should be taken with a grain of salt but you see my point.


    Different attempts and i still don't have better results than the original mod . the best measurements are still with a Ety or Shure tip with the tube in . Subjectively I don't hear that much difference with or without tubes in the tips.

    Other mods works and I can tame the 6khz as much as the original mod but the whole 2-6khz suffers as well ( white FR above) . So basically I can have a measurable and hearable "darker" HD800 but IMO it's a trade off vs Stock. My goal is still to mimic what Senn did with the HD800S : reducing the 6khz AND brings more high mids then a far better mids to treble articulation.


    I've still idea to work about though. Compys T200 and custom "resonator" for which i still look for the good material.

    BTW : I pulled off and put back the screen a few times now and the Screen still sticks well on the spider web ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  6. SKiring

    SKiring Friend

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    @sorrodje same results on my end, Open cell + piece of paper didn't do anything more. I'm still hearing a better damping with the Shure tips. I also attempted a cork mod, 3x2mm pressed, this was by far the lowest peak, but also it seemed to dampen other things which made it sound a bit boring subjectively.

    http://imgur.com/a/EuCAV

    So I'm back with my Shure tip in and never happier.

    One thing though, if you want better bass extension and presence, allow me to send over some Dynamat and silverstone foam on top if you don't have any. My best results in that area by far are putting some Dynamat + Silverstone foam (to dampen the reflective nature of the Dynamat) on the trapezoid. Also to give a slight warmth to the sound and even more/better damping, add cork (or cork + Silverstone foam) to the metal ring. This plus bath mat/liner on the mesh and the Shure tips are giving met the best results. As @OJneg mentioned and I agree with, you want an absorber, a resonator and a bit of damping on the metal ring and trapezoid for the total package.
     
  7. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    So, that hole is game to get stuffed?
    I am thinking if "spiral" shaped material is as good as cylindrical..
    Edit :
    Nope, scratc that,
    looks like I going to by some shure tips..
    :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  8. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I've tried the thicker etys, the yellow foamies, the shure, the Westone, comply, and a few others.

    Ears only I'm going with the denser ety tips with plastic left in plus the SBAF Absorber mod. These two together are pretty damn impressive. I might install the same resonators in Dr. Findley's HD800 tonight if he lets me.
     
  9. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Maybe I'm getting way ahead of myself but it would be great if the geniuses at SBAF find a way to replicate the HD800S resonator, or better yet, come up with one that surpasses it, and find a way to mass produce them for a run like the SuperBAF mod. It would be a whole different story from something that could simply be cut out of a template since it's 3-dimensional, and not everyone owns a 3D printer. Perhaps by the end of this year, hopefully?
     
  10. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    No one has a spare $1500 to buy one, gut it, and then analyze the material until they can find an exact copy.
     
  11. EraserXIV

    EraserXIV Friend

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    This? http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ER38-14F-Replacement-Eartips/dp/B0078JXDRI
     
  12. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Countless HD800's have been donated/vivisected in the name of science, and look how far we've come. I'm sure someone--a hero, messiah, or a guy with a lot of money and time to spare--will come around to take that step further. Or simply kidnap Alex and squeeze it out of him... or face the plank.
    |{

    To quote Interstellar: We will find a way, we always have.
     
  13. SKiring

    SKiring Friend

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    I mean to a degree it might be better overall @songmic, different mods tackle different things. I think even if I would get a HD800S, I'd still mod it. And really we're a few db away from the HD800S, which is even less noticeable when you have the absorber + extra damping on the ring/trapezoid in place.


    @zerodeefex and @sorrodje is this the Etymotic you guys are using: http://www.thomann.de/nl/etymotic_er38_14f.htm? It looks like open cell foam, if that it I'll definitely get some.
     
  14. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    yup. that's the one. but IMO it's not that better than Shure. it's closed cell foam but a bit different from the Shure one

    i've better ideas to experiment and need to do some attempts. The fact my first mod worked better than any other bugs me. :drunk:
     
  15. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    The hole of the Etymotic ER38-14F looks awfully small. Is it better to keep it that way or remove the tube inside?

    Also, did all the tips you tried require you to cut the tips to accommodate their size into the HD800? Or did some of them fit well without cutting (if so which ones?) and produced good results?
     
  16. SKiring

    SKiring Friend

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    @sorrodje haha good to know, and I do feel you with that.

    3x2mm pressed cork with double sided sticky tape in between was excellent in reducing the peak but it was almost over dampened and splinters come off, the latter makes it a bit more risky than other material. I wonder now if something like Sure tip + adding a layer of cork/open cell foam would help. Doubling up material has proved to work well in the past and still does it for me on the ring and trapezoid. Maybe it's not so much looking at a 1 size fits all type of tip but more so what we can add to it?

    Another thin that AnAlbumCover on the Discord chat mentioned was tri/3 flange tips. Maybe the rubbery nature of those tips might prove better?
     
  17. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    @songmic : tubes of etys have not the same diameter all along. you have to cut the tips and keep the part where the tube is larger. That's obvious when yoo look at the tip.

    For length and ideal cut, dunno yet. I didn't investigate enough and i need to understand why my first pair of cut tips was better than the others. Maybe their length was better or maybe it was the way I fitted them in the HD800 hole. I need to investigate with a more scientific and precise approach. Work in progress. Maybe I'll find more efficient ideas than tips.

    For now the best idea is to use som tips you have around ( etys, shure , whatever) , cut it approx to 6 or 7mm and put in the hole. A complys without the inner tube can fit when a bit compressed.

    But my advice for HD800 enthusiasts is still to wait a bit until we can confirm (or not) that the cut tip is the best (or not ;) )
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  18. whipped

    whipped New

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    I did another trial with the paper sticker over the central ring (over the fine dust mesh and no foam or any other mod) and used my wife to help me make sure I wasn't going crazy. I generated test tones of 1s intervals of the following frequencies 4, 4.5, 5 ,5.5, 6, 6.5,7 Khz fed from audacity straight into my Rega DAC R @44.1kHz. To both of our ears the 5 and 5.5Khz band is definitely louder than the 6 or 6.5Khz bands. Listening to the headphones also reflects this. There is no metallic sound to the treble anymore and the upper frequencies are easier to hear. OK does this mean that the 6 kHz peak is gone? No not necessarily, it just means that with the ears natural rolloff at around this point that we 'hear' 5 and 5.5Khz tones at a louder volume. My wife also has good hearing, I have tested her hearing up to 20KHz. I also read last night that another reader placed filter paper over the same part of his HD700 to tame his phone with similar results. I almost feel guilty to say that with this simple trick that the soundstage is also improved. There is a track on the old Beastie Boys album 'Pauls Boutique' (7 I think) where someone is playing ping pong throughout the song. With stock HD800 you can hear the ball being hit but it is not always clear on which side of the table it is bouncing on. With the sticker mod it is more evident which side of the table the ball is on. Anyway, its something simple that you can try in 1 minute assuming you have the thin paper stickers around. My wife had these Xmas stickers left over from Xmas. These are thin, slightly glossy (on top) paper stickers and not plastic. Worth the 5 minute experiment :)
     
  19. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    I promise I'll try and measure the sticker. plain version and with a hole in the middle. ;)
     
  20. whipped

    whipped New

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    Thanks Sorrodje :) When you take your measurements do you put a microphone at a set distance to the phone or do you use a setup which mimics the phone on the human head with a microphone in the fake ear cavity?
    Also, if you could measure your HD800S inner circle as previously discussed (even with a ruler trying to line it up from above to reduce parallax error ) it would really help to know that the S and classic share this critical dimension:)

    Cheers
     
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