Mysphere 3.1 and 3.2

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Zhanming057, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Zhanming057

    Zhanming057 Friend

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    Saw someone's status here about the Mysphere 1-week demo, and I figure that I'd start a thread about these.

    I've always been a big fan of the K1000, and I received a (mostly) finalized 3.2 version in late 2018. See below for my review of the 3.2 and measurements from https://mysphere.at/. The 3.1 is the "portable" version, it sounds almost identical to the 3.2, but a bit less technically strong and can be driven straight out of a portable DAP. I'm still waiting for a chance to get a longer demo session with a 3.1, and when I do I'll update this post.


     
  2. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    The wait time for the loaner set is more than I expected, I've booked a few weeks ago and may receive them mid March.
    Seems people are holding on to these for more than the agreed week and I have to wait for the returns.
    Since the originals there have been two changed according to Heinz, slightly less padding on the headbands for us cranially endowed and the different filter material, neither of which are in the test set for now.

    I have a love hate relationship with my K1K bass heavy. On the plus side soundstage and midrange are the best I've heard and their party piece, a very different experience to normal headphones. With the right amp the low end has fantastic punch but plankton is not quite there and the treble spike is annoying and a dealbreaker.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  3. Zhanming057

    Zhanming057 Friend

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    Keep in mind that shipping and clearance takes time. My production pair spend 4 days in customs in NY. Heinz offered me a 3.1 loaner for review but I declined it, since I knew that there was a long line for demos, and wanted to give priority to people who are on the fence about getting a pair.

    You can test the new padding material pretty easily - just try the headphones without the filter frames on, and see if you like the sound. If you find the K1000's treble spike annoying, you probably want the older filters. I actually like the K1000's treble spike and can't imagine those without them, which is one of the reasons I proposed the high transparency filter idea to Heinz. Bass punch will at least match the K1000, though.
     
  4. Zhanming057

    Zhanming057 Friend

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    [​IMG]

    @m17xr2b mentioned the transparent filter which is a recent customization option on the 3.1/3.2 for people who enjoy a slightly treble-heavy signature with greater transparency at the cost of a bit of smoothness and some sibilance.

    The standard material is tuned for free field neutral, and the new material tries to replicate the brighter signature of the headphones with the filter material in front of the drivers removed. You could simply use the Mysphere's without the filter, but the driver enclosure will be exposed. The midrange is also designed to require at least some dampening.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  5. james444

    james444 Mad IEM modding wizard level 99

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    Minor correction, the standard MySphere tuning is free field neutral, not diffuse field neutral. I need to EQ them down by -2dB around 2.5kHz to get closer to DF neutral.
     
  6. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Yeap i was going for it (demo) but someone alerted about the long waiting time and i'm not sure if i'm here all of April to receive and send it back on time.
     
  7. Zhanming057

    Zhanming057 Friend

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    Thanks for the correction - I got mixed up about this in the discussion. I've made the change to the original post.

    I might recommend checking in again with Heinz - my friends in Japan and Hong Kong are reporting less than 3 weeks of wait now, maybe Heinz managed to get some new demo units into the wild.
     
  8. Rayzilla

    Rayzilla Rando

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    Any more impressions to share by those that have had a chance to listen to these, whether it was a short or long listen?

    Curious on the comparison with the bass-heavy K1000. Thanks.
     
  9. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Get the test set, while somewhat expensive it's a lot less than having to sell them at a loss afterwords. You'll have to find out if either 3.1 or 3.2 work best in your system.

    For me both are number 1.

    3.1 is a technical master, neutral, fast, detailed.
    3.2 is the mid range master. I've been searching for a long time for an upgrade to the HD650 mids, this is it.

    Be wary if you listen to bass heavy stuff, while mid bass has great weight and punch neither will rumble. Other than that I can't find a fault. Comfort maybe if you wear glasses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  10. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Now that I've been without these for some time I'd like to share some impressions.

    Both are exceptional, no snake oil here and if the chain is up for it they'll give you a world class experience unmatched by anything else...as long as you don't need bass extension.

    I was surprised 3.1 and 3.2 are more different than not.

    3.1 worked best with the balanced output of the Stellaris, the synergy here was off the chart.
    Transients are spectacular, it's like it's not even there. I got the feeling of when walking down on stairs in the dark expecting to find a step and falling into the abyss.
    Low end was enough to complement the frequency but it has serious roll off at the extreme and overall quite shy. Deep bass will not be heard. Midbass is super tight and fast, a bit on the lean side but works well.
    Mids are truly neutral. My previous reference, my beloved modded HD580 was dethroned and listening side by side you can hear a very grey background compared to mysphere.
    Fastest gun in the west, can be easily compared to any stat hp.
    Detail was there in spades with better extension than my 580s but it was on the darker side. Not muffled just dark. No hint of harshness I could hear and these bested my HD800 in term of detail retrieval and finesse. Again a new benchmark for me.
    Soundstage is larger than HD800 but without the empty space between instruments, geometrically perfect. If anyone is looking for an upgraded HD800 these are it.

    Still I was surprised how close my HD580 was and I'd say 3.1 is 15% better overall taking into account the senns can to proper low end with subbass. The positive side is I now know just how good my current headphones are. Just got a spare for sub 100£ shipped.

    More people need to hear this combo but I'd put it at HE90 level.

    3.2 with it's high impedance didn't shine on the Stellaris. The liquid smooth transients weren't present and there was a fight between the warm and neutral, neither one winning in the end.

    One the Woo WA5(Elrog 300B,ECC32,422A) on high impedance these took off.

    My new mid range benchmark, a straight upgrade to the best driven HD650 mids in every way. I'm hesitant to say they're warm, it's a results for the inherit tone coupled with 300B coloration most likely.
    Low end has more presence than 3.1 with mid bass clearly upped but not offensive. Punchier as well but subbass is still not possible.
    High end is detailed just not to the level of 3.1 though that might be the shortcomings of the woo.


    Both have a truly black background that can't be unheard.

    I've rolled some of my lower end tubes and it's clear these are super amp picky. Unless they get reference gear they're a waste and not recommended.

    I'd very much like to own both, I'm being haunted in my sleep by the 3.2. 4000 euro is a lot and I got a quote for both sound frames so 3.1 and 3.2 for 6K. For both I would happily pay 4K as I feel they're worth it but that's were I draw the line.

    To conclude:
    3.1 for me set a benchmark for transients, neutrality, soundstage, microdetail and dynamics
    3.2 set a benchmark for mids.

    I can't choose between them, gun to my head I'd say 3.2 because they're the true successor of K1000 and improve it across the board but otherwise it's both or neither.

    I'd rather wait for a deal or in case there's a second revision.

    Also there's too much customisation here, you can get two different headbands, two different types of acoustic mesh for the drivers and considering the two different soundframes you have too many permutations and you'll never get a chance to actually hear all of them unless you buy everything.

    As far as enjoyment, yes they're great but so is my HD580 and I get 85-90% of the overall sound. I need a dreamcatcher.
     
  11. Heinz Renner

    Heinz Renner MOT: Mysphere

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    Thank you for the very complete overview!
    However, as always - the impressions and especially the differences between MS3.1 and MS3.2 are very strong depending on the different amplifiers used and depending on the damping factors and output impedance of it.
    According to an very old standard the headphone output shall be 110 ohms. As this is a very old-fashioned norm and very senseless today, nobody of the headphone amplifier manufacturer care about it.
    The problem behind in reality is, that headphones sound different when not adequate powered. This is for headphones using low Q-Values (at fundamental resonance) not very important (a typical example are planar magnetic constructions).
    But for dynamic ones very important and the more open they are designed, the importance increase.
    The various options which MYSPHERE offer are to optimize it for the individual taste.
    This is true for different head-bow padding, different ear-cushions and last but not least the impedance of the sound-frames.
    All this variants are offered without any additional cost.
    Of course it's often not so easy to choose, but you local dealer can help of sure!
    Kind regards - yours,
    Heinz
     
  12. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    I've been eyeing the MS3 for some time now, but conflicting reports between MS3.1 and MS3.2 confuse me.

    First of all, @Zhanming057 says that 3.1 is less technically strong than 3.2, but @m17xr2b says that 3.1 is the technical master. I would go for the technically superior one, but which one?

    Also, the information on Mysphere website seems strange. It says that MS3.1 is 15 ohms and MS3.2 is 110 ohms. So, theoretically speaking, MS3.1 should be a better match with low output Z amps (using high output Z would cause underdamping) and MS3.2 should be a better match with high output Z amps (using low output Z would cause overdamping) in general.

    However, also in the Mysphere website(https://mysphere.at/product/buy-mysphere3/), it says that
    MS3.1: optimized in damping for amplifiers with 10–30 ohms output impedance
    MS3.2: ideal performance with amplifiers below 10 ohms output impedance

    They are actually recommending a higher output Z amp for a 15 ohm headphone, and a lower output Z amp for a 110 ohm headphone. It doesn't make sense to me.

    For the record, I'm using a DHT SET (OPT-coupled) tube amp with 2-ohm output Z.

    I would appreciate it if @Zhanming057, @m17xr2b and @Heinz Renner could chime in on this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  13. Zhanming057

    Zhanming057 Friend

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    I would defer to @m17xr2b and Heinz on this, since my experience with the Mysphere 3.1 is rather limited and I got most of my information from Heinz himself. I've only tried the Mysphere 3.1 on the WA11 and WA8 and I felt that it was good on the WA8, not as good as the Mysphere 3.2 on the WA11.

    My understanding, as paraphrasing from Heinz, is that the 3.1 is designed with a tube-like output impedance level in mind but will also work better with portable devices because of the lower power demand. Personally, I felt that the 3.2 is at its best on strong solid states, and using 300b amps resulted in a overly "loose" midrange. With 2a3 and EL84 amps the midrange tightens up but still doesn't reach a great level of density. On the 3.1, there was no density issue on the WA8.
     
  14. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    I really don't see the point of getting 3.1 for portable gear. Tried it with WM1A balanced and while fine overall it didn't have the soundstage, resolution, mid bass punch or transients to TOTL level. Around 70% of what it can do and for the money I'd rather look elsewhere.

    The safe bet between the two is 3.2, more forgiving of amplification but it does need a lot of juice to wake it up and for someone who liked the K1000 this is a straight upgrade.
    The Teton which is a beast in itself and drives the K1000 to perfection couldn't muster enough grunt to push the low end and I was getting distortion on mid-high volume. No such issues on the woo even if the output impedance was quite similar.
    Even the bottlehead crack managed to retain most of the beautiful mids of the 3.2 and sounded beyond acceptable for bass light songs.

    3.1 is a lot more picky on amping, I was surprised how bad the Apex Peak sounded, thin and brittle. This can needs an amp with little to no coloration of its own and a technical master if you want to get the best out of it. Stellaris and Studio come to mind.
    Tried it with on low impedance(8ohm) with the WA5 and it was a mess, high end was smeared and coarse, mids had funny tone, took it off after 20 seconds. I'm sure it's the Woo that can't provide enough fine control and is overall far to coloured where the 3.1 doesn't take it well.

    @songmic, get the test set and try both on your own gear. If you decide to buy it you'll get the a small discount to cover the loaner so you won't end up paying more than list price. Hopefully you won't be trigger happy and buy blind but I'll be first in line for a used pair:)
     
  15. Heinz Renner

    Heinz Renner MOT: Mysphere

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    The ideal damping of a dynamic transducer (speaker) is a bit more "tricky":
    It should be a Q~1 for a dirver acting into free field.
    The MYSPHERE 3.1 reach that when electrically driven with amplifier output impences above 15 ohms.
    And MS 3.2 reach that with impeances of amps below 15 ohms. This is because the coil in the driver has already a high resistive proportion in itself.

    Basically those effects are nothing special and valid for all dynamic speakers and headphones.
    However, as more open designed the more importance this effect become.

    BR heinz
     
  16. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    In that case, which do you think might be a better match for my amp, 3.1 or 3.2?
    My amp only has an output of 2 ohms so it should be used with 3.2, but it is a transformer tube amp (not OTL) so it should be used with 3.1?
    The best way for me would be to try both and compare, but I don't think I could order both at once...
     
  17. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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  18. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    I am waiting for my trial. I don't think i will ever buy, not for 3300 euros, that's for sure but still got me curious. I had the same doubts as @songmic and thought the info was kinda confusing.
     
  19. Heinz Renner

    Heinz Renner MOT: Mysphere

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    Hello, as long as you are sure that your amp has really 2 ohms output impedance, you can be sure that MS3.2 is best to use.
    But be careful! Many amplifier descriptions are just wrong and mention in reality the impedance of the headphone which can be used.
    Therefore, please do us the favour and tell me (you can PM me also) which amplifier you like touse with MYSPHERE!? I' do have a pretty nice overview already and if necessary I give the producer of the amp a call to veryfy...
    BR heinz
     
  20. Heinz Renner

    Heinz Renner MOT: Mysphere

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    Sorry that these things about impedances are confusing - yes, they are!
    But it's based on Physics and I cannot change this!
    :-(
     

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