Yggdrasil A2/og vs MIB

Yggdrasil A2/og vs MIB





CHAIN

Tidal/Qobuz via UPNP -> Holo RED -> AES splitter approved by @atomicbob -> both Yggdrasils ->

-> SE out of MIB (sounds better than XLR -> cinemags) ->
-> XLR out of A2/og -> Cinemag CMLI-600/600C ->

-> RCA 2 in 4 out switcher. The most transparent switcher you could make with Elma switches and all OCC copper hookup wire. Handmade by a friend. PICS -> SE amps

One specific amp chain I used to finalize and verify these impressions was

Stellais with Takatsuki 2a3 tubes, my favorite NOS rectifier and driver tube for the Taks after experimentation (I will post this in the club room for pyrates only) and my RD-4 which is a hyper resolving headphone.

TLDR;
I prefer the A2/og over the MIB. The MIB doesn’t commit sins of commission that bother me, actually the A2/og probably commits just a few more. But the MIB commits many more sins of omission than the A2/og. The A2/og is really just a better DAC overall to me in every way. Except for maybe smoothness, but that’s just because the MIB more dull. So I’m not sure it’s fair to really call it smoother. Smoothed over might be more accurate. I prefer the A2/og by quite a bit

More detailed prose

When switching from the A2/og to the MIB

the first thing I notice is less detail, a dullness that is quite stark, much less dynamic contrast and texture. It sounds like there is a veil over everything in comparison, and leading edges sound rounded off. If I keep listening, I can get used to it because the MIB is tuned well and is very neutral and well balanced. So it has a way of sounding "right". But so boring in comparison to the A2/og

When switching back to the A2/og from the MIB

Every single instrument jumps out at me with more space between notes. There is more dynamic contrast, where notes have clarity and swings in dynamics are much more natural and pronounced. Not overly done at all IMO, not "hyper contrast", just right, more realistic. Drums are dynamic instruments!

So brass for example, it sounds smoothed over and kind of mixed into the other instruments on the MIB. That texture of air and wind and reverberance that brass has is quite smoothed over. On the A2 the brass jumps out, full of contrast and color and texture and detail, with space behind it and you can really hear the air in the instrument better.

Drums on the A2/og are so much more alive and dynamic, with different drums moving around me, while the MIB puts them sort of in a lump on a flat plane. Boring.

The A2/og also does spacial cues so much better, there is an “aliveness” to notes where they have a clear place in the headstage space while the MIB is much more flat and these cues are just missing. And there are little cues spiraling off of notes that are much more evident than on the MiB. I don't know if you know what i mean here - it’s like with the MIB, the notes are just presented as single phrases, where with the A2/og they are whole paragraphs, with the main note, textural information in the note itself and textural information spiraling off of that note as it moves through the air.

On the subject of the A2/og "hash/grayness"

I guess the MIB has a blacker backround, but the point of a blacker background to me would be to help individual instruments stand out on their own by jumping out at you from that black background and not get mushed together. And the MIB mushes instruments together compared to the A2/og so I don’t see why it matters in the end. But i’ve never been bothered by the hash/grayness of the A2/og. So take this with a grain of salt. But instruments "jump out at you" much more profoundly on the A2/og. so I do hear the increase in black background on the MIB, but I only really hear it in comparison to the A2/og.

The MIB has a bit less bass and the treble is a bit subdued in comparison. But I don’t find the A2/og to have the elevated bass or incisive treble that people say it has. i find it basically perfectly tuned. And the MIB to me lacks shimmer in cymbals.

Bass is more well defined to me on the a2/og. And I do not find the A2/og bass emphasized to create this. Both seem to me to be in the realm of neutral bass response, the A2/og I suppose has a bit more quantity, but I would not call it colored. Again, I have never heard the "bass emphasis and incisive treble" that some talk about on the A2/og.

Final Thoughts / The Definitive Word

So the MIB is flatter in terms of a 3D presentation, more muted sounding, has less texture and resolution, less grit to instruments, less separation between notes, less dynamic contrast, muted spacial cues and information. It may be more neutral, I don’t know it’s hard to say what neutral is at this subtle level. I think both are close enough to neutral that it comes down to preferences.

I honestly can’t imagine preferring the MIB over the A2/og unless the A2/og does something you specifically dislike that the MIB fixes and you’re willing to put up with all these technical inferiorities.

I think Schiit took a backstep with both the LIM and MIB coming from the A2/og. I hope the new Multiform when it trickles up to the Yggdrasil can bring back the technical chops the A2/og had and bring some life back to the Yggdrasil. Or maybe it will be Singularity. But I think Schist is wresting with part shortages and working with new parts and I fully believe they are capable of making something much better than the A2/og.

Right now the A2/og is my favorite DAC I have heard. Though I have not heard DACs above 6k and have not heard many Delta Sigma DACs at all. I do have a Direct Stream mkii that I’m waiting to swap in where the MIB is now. But i haven’t heard it yet. I’m looking forward to that!

ps. I am an MOT but I will never make a DAC so there is no competition here. And I posted a request for comments in my status updates about whether to post this or not because I feel (I still feel) confliced about it and the ethics behind it and the response was a resounding "please post your impressions". I respect Schiit, Json and Mike and think they are extremely talented, especially their DACs. The fact that their A2/og beats the Holo Spring and MAY (without HQplayer), Rockne Wavelight and Wavedream (cheaper one), Soerkis 2641, and more for me says a lot. I just wanted to add a positive note here because I love my A2/og. But I do want more resolution and I think Schitt could do better especially if they let go of price points and made an uber Yggdrasil. But even if not.

 

I very strongly agree with this. I'm a huge fan of how the A2/OG makes sounds "pop" and I the "greyness" of the background has never bothered me in the slightest. I haven't heard another DAC that can pull it off dynamic swings as well, both macro and micro. Granted, I haven't heard that many DACs, but still.

Thanks @rhythmdevils for saving me money, time, and effort, because your descriptions have reinforced that I would like the A2/OG more than the MIB and I shouldn't bother buying and installing the MIB boards.

 

Thanks so much for the write-up, @rhythmdevils. I had been thinking about an OG vs MIB comparison for a quite a while. I had even planned to get my hands on MIB boards myself to compare them, but the more I read, the more I began to suspect that the MIB’s presentation wouldn’t be exciting enough for me. Your description is exactly what I needed to see to confirm my suspicion.

FYI, I actually slightly prefer the A1 to the A2 (I’ll post my head-to-head comparison eventually). For those of you who think you would share rhythmdevil's preferences based on the write-up above, I strongly urge you to consider the Yggdrasil GS2. At $1,699, it’s an outrageous value.

 

After my experience with the Gunner A1 and A2 I've veered away from the A1 Yggdrasil. I hated the Gunner A2 and there were a lot of comparisons aligning the A1 Yggdrasil with the A2 Gungnir and A2 Yggdrasil with A1 Gungnir. And I find the tonality of the A1 Gungnir to be similar to the tonality of the A2 Yggdrasil.

but I wouldn't mind hearing it!

 

I’ll post my full head-to-head A1 vs. A2 comparison soon, but to summarize: I found that the A1 offers better clarity and separation of instruments in a dense mix, whereas the A2 offers a more liquid presentation and a bit more heft. It was really, really close for me, but I’m going to sell my A2 (I’ll list it here shortly) and stick with my A1. I had been holding onto the A2 for possible upgrade with MIB cards, but I’m now convinced I wouldn’t like it as much as the A1, and I’d rather put my money into my vinyl chain, which I’ve been listenitng to much more than my digital chain lately. (All the recent jazz vinyl reissue campaigns have been monopolizing my listening time.)

 

I won't try to derail this thread much, but I will say that between all of the Schiit boards/DACs I've had in my system (BFMB OG, BF2 OG/2-64, Gungnir A2, Yggdrasil A2/LIM/MIB/A1) the differences when listening to speakers haven't squared with the differences listening to headphones. Not saying that either speakers or headphones are *better*, just saying the synergies add up differently. E.g., I prefer MIB on my speaker rig, but A2 on my office headphone rig. MIB does liquid mids, microdetail, and depth better in my speaker setup; A2 does "jump factor" better than anything else in my headphone rig. I will say Yggdrasil A1 and OG BFMB were the least involving no matter what I hooked them up with but for different reasons.

 

thanks, that's not a derailment.

I actually forgot to add that I did some of my comparisons with my modded S-12 out of the Pieutus and I noticed that when I switched from the iems to full size headphones these differences were less extreme. And someone told me that the Yggdrasil was really special with speakers. Which makes me think that the MIB does better with more distance from the transducer. But I haven't compared them on my speaker rig.

 

The idea that MIB would shine with speakers better than (some) headphones makes sense to me, reading between the lines of various impressions.

I’ve always been curious what RD would think of A1 given A2 keeps coming on top for him (remember: he liked A2 better than even Wavedream!). Definitely less of a delta between A1 and A2 than MIB/LIM and A2, though.

 

Yup, forgot to note that all my comparisons of A1 vs A2 were via headphones: ZDS to Senn HD800 or Grado RS1i.

 

Well this should be appended by the word ultimately. I loved the Wavedream, I thought it sounded more like real life than any DAC I've heard, but I thought the vocal range was recessed and that was a deal breaker for me no matter what else it had going for it. I hate recessed vocals and spend an enormous effort tuning my headphones to have vocals that (I think) are spot on. I have no interest in then hearing them recessed from my DAC. Or trying to tune with that DAC.

There are other things like that with other DACs, where they may be technically better than the A2 in some way, but just have something I consider a glaring flaw.

 

Props to doing an actual switcheroo between the two of them.

To add to the last posts about synergy, while going in yet another direction: I’ve owned the A2, LIM and MIB. Headphones only, without your A/B switching, on Beyers (T1.2, Amiron Home, T5p.2) and various combinations of OTL, SS and hybrid amps.

My findings: sold the A2 quickly as I thought they were too much of a wall of sound and overly dynamic (which some may describe as warm). Initially went for LIM which portrayed instruments much better for me, both individually and en group. Really nice on SS but maybe a bit too less detail on my Eufonika OTLs.

Now I find myself settling on the MIB: yes, a little less involving on your stereotype SS but marvelously balanced on tubes. And wanting to buy a MJ3 before stock runs out.

(Yes, with reference to my LIM/MIB boards for sale, I am coming back from my earlier opinion that LIM was “It” For Me - because it depended).

 

I forgot to mention that I had both DAC's input into a 2 in 4 out RCA switcher, the most transparent switcher you could make with Elma switches and all OCC copper hookup wire. Handmade by a friend. PICS

So I could switch between both DACs easily. And there was a volume difference, but it was easy to adjust and hear a stark difference between the 2 DAC's.

I just imagine being able to switch so quickly is pretty unique among comparisons of these Yggdrasil versions. it's much harder to compare them when you have to unplug things and move heavy components.

Not that this makes my opinion more valid, just something to add.