Schiit Jotunheim impressions

I am currently transitioning from Mjo2 to Joti and I would not at all say that Joti is brighter, fed from the same source. It's more forward and can be a bit shouty around 2-3khz but no treble sharpness (with HD650s). Can you be any more precise about what kind of brighness/sharpness it is? Is that the same thing as not enough warmth, or a separate problem?

 

I think I hear it as a bit of both. I can definitely hear more high frequency details with the Jot. The sound seems sharper and cleaner and a bit less thicker. I'm hoping that this is partly due to the change from Bifrost Multibit to the Jot's AK4490.

 

If you dig through the thread, @schiit (Jason) stated what technology was used to split the signal. I keep calling it a "phase splitter" but its something else that does the job. I would worry about a good sounding DAC over feeling obligated to buy balanced (though a Gunmby is awesome sauce). There is very little power output loss going from balanced in to RCA in...

Now go introduce yourself and tell us if you have the only good variant of the LCD-2, and I'm not telling you which one it is....

...kidding its the rosewood 2.2

 

Right, I see. I agree that it is a bit less meaty than the Mjo2. This might be coming from left of field, but have you tried the single-ended out? To me, it sounds a bit thicker and less sharp.

 

I never considered that!will try. Thanks.

 

2.2 Pre-fazor Rosewoods .. But yes I'm new here and I do appreciate the answer

 

I got my Jotunheim, Modi Multibit and HD650 in yesterday. Instead of splitting up my swimming pool full of thoughts between their respective threads I figured I'd evaluate the entire chain here instead. Running straight USB to Modi Multibit and SE in to Jot for the time being.

tl;dr It's about as good as everyone said it was, I could easily have this as my setup until I can save up for a big boy tube amp and Gungnir Multibit. I don't feel the need to mod the 650s, perhaps Dynamat but we'll see.

Pros
*Throw out most of what you know about the HD650 out of a mid-fi chain, this reminds me a lot more of the HD600 (which before now I would have said I preferred) than the downwards sloping and slightly laid-back HD650 I know.
*Stage is more consistent to being in the middle of the band at a small venue or in the studio, depending on the recording.
*Despite an overall increase in treble/upper mid energy and transient attack, sibilance and harshness in my usual test tracks were not present. Any fatigue I experienced in my first listening session was physical pain from the vice grip of a clamp the Senns have fresh out the box
*Recordings I usually associate with being sub-par and/or brickwalled have a way of de-congesting and getting room to breathe, providing more space between instruments
*It's amazing how much more of a genre-master the HD650 becomes with this chain behind it. Punk rock has tons of energy and crunch with the super sharp transients. Female vocals are rendered with effortless tonality and nuances such as sharp intakes of breath mid-verse can be easily picked up on. Trance and synthpop benefit from the insane grip and control over the low frequencies.
Cons
*The Modi seriously needs its warm-up time, before 24 hours a variety of issues were present
*Super sssharp transients and forward sound keeps you listening on edge with some genres, no longer the relaxing listen you would expect from the HD650
*Slightly metallic/steely sheen or timbre to the treble, especially notable in cymbals. This becomes benign on most tracks with warm-up and can even be beneficial on others depending on the mix
Mehs
*I don't like the volume knob. It retains heat from the unit, has resistance to initial turn which makes fine adjustments difficult. Indicator difficult/impossible to spot in low-light
*Not the best setup for low-volume listening IMO, but this is mostly due to the HD650s sleepy nature and my personal preferences
*Not the clearest center image compared to ZX2+Andromeda, but I suspect this will improve greatly by moving away from USB as a source and possibly by going balanced

 

You know... somebody is selling a Gungnir Multibit for really cheap around here

No, personally I don't feel like either of those help the center stage. Going balanced actually widens the soundstage and doesn't make the center image stronger or the mids any thicker or more present. The Lynx AES16 doesn't seem to affect soundstage or center image much either. Center imaging on the Jotun is just one of its weaknesses it seems and is apparent when you switch to a different amp.

 

Yes. I noticed this with Jotun and Modi Multibit seemed to add another 'layer' to this treble weirdness which almost sounded like RealAudio compression. It was pretty much the only negative I could find with that setup though, price considered, and it was specific to certain songs.

 

Good to know, but unfortunate. Still plan on making both changes, because why not.

I know exactly what you're talking about in regards to the compression, I heard it too on certain tracks and it was a WTF moment. Still forgivable since it is track specific.

 

You hit the nail on the head perfectly!
The beneficial nature I'm noticing in acoustic jazz and bluegrass...I have been on a non-stop jazz tear lately because this setup just works perfectly. The cymbals and reeds sound the best I have heard. In bluegrass, dobro and mandolin sound just like they do live. For my musical interests and budget this system is IT!

 

Could you elaborate on this? I've already had poor experiences with low-volume listening in the past (efficient Grado SR225i or FiiO EX1 out of E12DIY), hitting channel imbalance very quickly... Is this what you're experiencing?

The other thing, and this is may turn out a very ignorant thing for me to say, aren't cymbals like supposed to sound metallic or steely? Wouldn't this be a Pro and not a Con? Or is it something else going on?

 

Nope, it's just that many of the strengths of this combination don't come through clearly unless you turn the volume up to normal or a little bit above normal if the recording allows it. An exception is made for recordings with high DR that sound good at lower volumes as well (e.g. X - Los Angeles). I don't have any transducers other than HD650 to test for channel imbalance at the moment.

Sure, like I said it's a track-specific thing. Most of the unpleasant steel went away after a few hours of warm-up but from a cold listen my HD650 suddenly had Beyer timbre in the highs. Some hotly mastered rock (or god forbid, metal) is already mixed to bring out this sheen, to have the coloration in the playback chain as well makes it too much. The more I've listened the less of an issue it's become though, so it's not really a con with the HD650 in specific. I don't think I would enjoy the HE-560 with this amp at all though.

 

Sounds like a classic case of brain burn-in, not amp burn-in

 

I'm doing ok with HE-560 out of the Jot, as a nice contrast to my HD560. I have the newest revision, where I think they moved the drivers a bit to stop them vibrating against something (the housing? I forget), and probably did a bunch of other secret tweaks which they will deny- like they did with the grille inside the HE400i, which was a nice stealth improvement.

I'm weird, as I am not actually wedded to a specific sound. I enjoy sound a little warm, and I really like the throaty growl of a dynamic driver, but enjoy the HE-560 when I want things a little less slamming with a bit more "air" between the instruments. I don't find the treble an issue, unless the music is appallingly mixed/mastered (we're back to "Nevermind", there). Someone elsewhere complained that the combo was too "dry" and angrily requested an amp inventory when I disagreed- it really is a personal taste thing, though.

Anything that sounds too obnoxious to me through the Jot currently gets punted onto the Vali 2, which calms frazzled nerves. It's a toy amp, but does the job while I'm waiting for another slightly more substantial tube amp to land.

The weird thing is that I used to find HE-400i a little sibilant/harsh in the treble out of a Magni 2U, and felt that they were less of a problem out of the Jot, which is tons faster. I don't understand how that works, unless it's less overrun, or possibly the effect of more/deeper bass from the amp masking somehow?

Anyway, it's probably not a combination for everyone, 560 and the Jot, but I do enjoy it, and hear tons of detail. Sometimes I want a greyhound rather than a pit bull

 

I'm curious whether you are referring to the 1991 mastering or the 2011 mastering of "Nevermind" (or even the MFSL). I am assuming CD mastering, but correct me if I am wrong about that.

I thought the mixes by Andy Wallace & Butch Vig was very nice (used on all releases).

1991 mastering by Howie Weinberg - rather good mastering on this CD.*

1996 mastering by MFSL (they don't credit mastering engineers) - was fine. A little brighter than the 1991 but not ruined. Still enjoyable to listen to but I prefer the original CD. (The added brightness may be more of a problem with the Jot, from the impressions of the Jot that I have read.)

2011 mastering by Bob Ludwig - This one is shockingly bad to me. Something is wrong with the world when someone pays Bob Ludwig to just lean on the peak limiter.

@Marvey had me curious about which mastering he used when he mentioned using some tracks from the album as test tracks, kind of like "If these tracks sound good on a given piece of equipment...".

* I have heard LP masterings (original US, original German, "320", ORG) and even the 1991 CD pales in comparison to those, IMO.

 

I don't know enough about the mix, I was being a bit scattergun with my blame, as it sounds so rough. I just went and dug the actual physical CD out, and as I suspected, it's the 1991. The highs in the percussion, in particular the splashy piercing hats, are what really leap out me.

My copy was 1991 Virgin music, so I suppose it was the UK issue, though I doubt there would be any differences in the mastering?

I have old Sisters Of Mercy and The Jesus And Mary Chain on CD, I suspect that I'm not too vulnerable to crappy mastering, and it really does sound a bit rough to my ears. It's definitely one of my go-to recordings when trying to get a handle on equipment.

 

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity, Kattefjaes.

All of the 1991 releases would have the same mastering.

I may have been so tolerant of this 1991 mastering because I was finding LPs so much more enjoyable than CDs that I cut CDs slack and did not expect as much out of them. (Little did I imagine that "Loudness Wars" style peak limiting was about 3 years away and going to ruin most all of my CD fun.)

 

My pleasure, it was a perfectly reasonable bit of curiosity.

Slightly OT, but it might interest you to know that some of the foot soldiers in the trenches of The Loudness Wars are the EBU (European Broadcast Union). They get very grumpy about the topic, and demand "no more loudness sausage":



..presumably because brick-wall mastered tracks look like alarmingly-tapered wurst in waveform view. I only discovered this because a colleague had printed the above image and stuck it on the notice board near his office. I was a little scared until I found out what it signified.

 

That is very interesting - and funny.