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I am playing "Eroica" for the second time. This music is seriously cheering me up

 

Thanks @MoatsArt ! That was a fun read, though I think I'll need to re-read it in the morning to make sure I've parsed everything, but I consider it time well spent.

 

How important would you say an understanding of musical theory is for composing? Because I can play piano quite well, and 'make' music in my head, but have no idea how to go about actually putting it down onto paper. Would really like to give it a go sometime, but have no starting point.

 

A knowledge of theory is absolutely non-essential for composing music. I have a few question for you, though, as well as a few observations.

Questions:

1. Have you been able to get the tunes out of your head and play them on the piano?
2. Do you know how to read music?
3. Do you have access to any recording equipment?

Observations:

1. A knowledge of theory can be useful if you want to learn how other composers/song writers work.
2. Some knowledge of theory is essential if you plan on writing music for instruments in different keys (such as trumpets and saxophones)
3. It's vital for a composer to have a good "ear" for music. He needs to know what keys to press down on an instrument to realise the sounds he hears in his head. Even better is the ability to hear something and be able to notate it musically. These are skills that can be learned.

Feel free to send me a PM if you want to follow up any of this.

 

I have been listening to various eras of classical music for these past 5 years from music composed in 1000s to the present. Active listening has brought me so much joy and understanding. Composers as diverse as Bach or Feldman has become a necessity for my well being.

I also enjoy reading history and learning about music forms and structure through books and classical internet forums.

I used to play guitar till 10 years of age but sadly stopped. I am now 39 years old and considering learning the piano so that maybe, just maybe, I can play a Bach fugue or a Beethoven piano sonata. Knowing I can barely dedicate 30 minutes a day for practice, is it worth the effort and time that could be dedicated to listening?

 

Do it. Do it now.

Nothing is more satisfying or therapeutic when you get in the zone. Be prepared for some frustration, but persevere. Obviously, your initial goals should be much more modest than Beethoven sonatas or Bach fugues, but there is some rewarding classical repertoir that should be within striking distance before too long.

Age is no barrier. I once taught a friend's grandmother who was almost ninety at the time. She got a buzz out of it and I got a delicious free meal every Thursday evening.

 

@Muse Wanderer yeah just do it i took classes when i was kid but i stopped bc playing nes was more exciting at that time for me and now i am angry at myself that i didn't continue. I wasn't any phenom far from it but i would like to know how these days for my own enjoyment. After first year they start to teach simplified classical songs like bach - air for kids something like this

 

Thanks for the encouragement Nathan.

The piano looks like the ideal instrument as, unlike string instruments, it has a range that can 'simulate' orchestral works. Furthermore, at my age, I may not be able to perfect the technique of say violin playing, whilst the piano is easier to get.

Now I am looking at good uprights so that my 5 year old kid and I can finally start music lessons.

I feel I need to do it, and I have been stuck in a rut lately thinking about it but deferring it.

I know I will never be a Sviatoslav Richter or a Glenn Gould, but that is not the point.

I feel a need to further understand, exteriorise and play the music I listen to.

If at some point I can play this movement, I can die in peace...

 

Answer to questions:
1. Yes, but not with huge success. It's mostly just brute forcing until I find the right notes.
2. Yup!
3. Ironically, I have access to some okay-ish recording equipment, but no instruments right now. My apartment on campus isn't great for space, or noise isolation.

Observations are definitely appreciated, and I'll mull over that offer until I have more regular access to my piano after I finish my program.

 

I'm going to answer @Wilson's question with a question for you all. Time for some participation! Anyone or everyone can get involved with this.

Here's a recording of the first movement of Beethoven's Symphony No. 3 "Eroica". Your challenge: Listen to it, choose one moment that you find particularly dramatic or moving and indicate it by the time stamp.




I'll attempt to explain some compositional techniques that Beethoven uses at that point. I can't say that I'll be able to explain why it sounds dramatic or moving. Our recognition of beauty is often ineffable, unspeakably mysterious.

 

@MoatsArt That was such a graceful and nuanced description of the sticky classical/romantic distinction!

To folks thinking of picking up a new instrument or re-learning one, it also has some huge health benefits for your brain. Neurological plasticity is dramatically increased when learning an instrument or new language, so listening and playing attentively is not only great fun but good for you (and it doesn't taste like boiled Brussel Sprouts!)

 

The transition in tone from 8:30 onwards! Love it.

 

My strong advice would be to develop your aural skills. There are many formal ways of going about this, but I'll tell you a little story about how I got started.

When I was an early teenager I found, like you, that I had music in my head. This is "auralisation" as opposed to "visualisation" and was both music that I had heard and music that I made up. I found after a while that I could sing simple written musical examples. I did this by working out what key it was in, singing the scale, and then singing the notes by comparing their pitch to one another. I couldn't be sure that I was singing A=440, which would be perfect pitch. Rather, I was developing relative pitch by determining a pitch in relation to another pitch.

Driven by necessity, I taught myself to transcribe music, ie. listen to it and then write it down. I grew up in the 80's in rural Australia and, pre internet, had access to very little sheet music. If I wanted to learn a song, I'd tape it from the radio onto cassette. I'd write down a few bars of what I thought the notes were and then checked them on the piano. A slow but very rewarding process.

These are a couple of ways you can teach yourself to develop aural skills. Hear something in your head? Much like transcribing a song from the radio. When I went to Uni there were formal lessons that taught you to do the same stuff. It was heaps more fun doing it by myself, though, and the classes I had to take four or five years later were entirely unnecessary.

 

Awesome, I will listen Saturday and get back to you.

 

Please keep the questions coming.

 

Why do minor keys evoke sadness? Does this hold across cultures?

What is the smallest step the human ear can differentiate?

 

Apparently there is no reason that they should! Source, an amazingly wonderful introduction to classical music lecture series available online: I'll search the link

ok, here it is: Open Yale Courses, Listening to Music, Prof Craig Wright.

Go here, blind listening tests, to find out the smallest interval your ears can detect. Warning: do not click that link without an hour or so to spare: you will want to play with all their tests!

 

Beethoven Symphonie 3, "Eroica" conducted by Leonard Bernstein in 1978. (According to the Youtube description!)

Notes
1:10 that transition
1:45 next phase
2:27 the subtle suspense

Playful, melodic transitions.

4:05 build-up again

The clarinets constantly hint at more to come.

7:33 from silent to bombastic, then it stops
8:37 next phase, then build up
to
9:37 the horns wake up

The clarinet parts, such a lovely contrast. Then the flute...

10:45 new build-up
to
11:59 next phase
12:40 the entire orchestra joins in
13:50
to
14:20 more intense moments of bombast and joy with small transitions
16:30 From this moment on the finale really starts for me.

Summary
Beethoven keeps you on your toes. The dynamic nature and swift transitions make my feet tap. Yet you still appreciate the clarinet, flute and horn solos between bombastic phases. There is an aspect of playfulness and joyfullness to the "Eroica" that pulls you in and you sense you want to dance. This music makes me smile.

@MoatsArt , your turn.

 

@Thad E Ginathom gave a great response already, here's a little elaboration:

Gregoriano chant music through to Classical music evolved from a system of "modes" that were thought to be similar to Greek musical modes. These eventually became the classical "scales" although they were used very differently at different times. In chant music, most intervals were fourths, fifths, and consonant or "perfect" intervals. (Part of why we call those intervals perfect rather than major) as time passed, people experimented more and more - some late renaissance music was actually tremendously harmonically and rhythmically dissonant, for example the music of Carlo Gesualdo might remind someone more of Messiaen's choral works than Josquins! Changing ideas about the purpose of music especially in the church (see the council of Trent, etc.) and an interest in recovering and replicating what European's thought greco-Roman music sounded like (note: not what it actually sounded like) eventually brought about things like Opera and chamber music.

This stands in contrast with Indian classical Raga music for example which is based off of harmonic modes that include quarter tones and are played over a drone tone. An interesting facet of this music is that the rhythmic mode (or beat pattern) indicates what ritual or spiritual significance a particular piece had. In European music it is tonality that takes precedence. In fact, western sheet music is rather clunky when it comes to notating certain kinds of rhythms that would be otherwise easy to learn by ear.

I'll take a listen to the Beethoven and work on a response for some of that. For those interested, see wikipedia's entry on Sonata form to get a head start!

 

There is another thread on Indian music, and its details are best discussed there. Even though my consumption is considerable, my understanding is small. However, I've never been happy with this "quarter-tone" thing. We speak of twelve tones in a western cromatic scale: if you count each flat and sharp as two, then you have 18 note names. India (If I've got the number right) extends this to 22. There are specified gamakas, eg slides to/from/around a note, within specified limits, that are part of the identification of each raga. There are those who say that "C-sharp" is not the same as "D-flat," or that a particular note in a given raga may be slightly flat or sharp compared to the same in another raga. It is, in theory, not tied to any A=440-or-anything standard pitch, but I suspect that electronic drones, etc, are changing that.

No chords, but yes, that drone.

I have never heard that but there are a number of different kinds of Indian classical music.