HD650 or HE6

Hey guys, if, well, if the DAC/amp isn't a problem at all, what we consider is choosing the cans, hd650 and he6, which one will you pick?

 

In stock form they are very different sounding headphones. Both have great mids but HE-6 has a brighter/harsher treble due to the 9.5kHz peak. Bass on both is excellent. HE-6 has more of a linear bass that is very tight sounding. HD650 bass is a bit bloomy due to the hump at 100Hz. IMO, soundstage and imaging go to the HD650 as well as microdetails. HD650 provides a very natural sound although some might say it's a bit dark overall. Mods help HD650 liven up and are crucial to HE-6 to sound its best.

The dac choice is pretty easy. Get a good neutral dac, one of the Schiit dacs will suffice. I recommend any of the Multibit dacs. This is for either headphone.

Amp choice is a lot more difficult. Something like Ember (which is what I use HD650 with) or Vali 2/ Valhalla 2 are highly recommended. HD650 is a lot easier to get great sound from amp wise.

Amps for HE-6 are a lot harder to recommend. There is a thread asking this very question here. I can tell you I am still searching for a suitable amp to drive them to their full potential. Some people are using $3000 Krell amps and the like just for their HE-6! I've been using mine with the Liquid Carbon and while it sounds pretty great, I still think there is room for improvement. But at what cost? $1000+ amp for just HE-6?

I would say go for HD650, get a Dac you can live with for a long while and get one of the recommended amps for HD650. Tube amps are great and offer tube rolling if you like that sort of thing. HE-6 is an expensive road to go down lol.

 

I've got both cans. He6 is truly end game. But amping is critical . Probably speaker amp would be best choice. 650 is more sensible option. Easier to listen to to. Try auditioning if possible

 

I have auditioned both. HD650 is my preferred choice.. Rich powerful Yummy sound signature which I love..

 

HD650, if for no other reason than it takes less than 5 Watts to drive it properly. Also, I feel that it has a smoother and more neutral sound signature. Don't get me wrong, I love my HE-6 (except for the damn cable connectors), but if you want something to use every day, for hours on end, get the Senns.

 

So what advantages do the HE-6 offer? And how much will a decent (not TOTL) amp that can run them cost?

 

You can get a speaker amp from 300 & up for he6. I had the carbon driving mine first. Then I got a great deal on a 100 watt speaker amp. Crystal clear sound and go loud with no distortion at all. That really amazed me, was how clear they sound. Much better for rock music imo.

 

FWIW using a mjolnir 2 I use my HE-6 much more than my 650, and I haven't tried it on a speaker amp so idk what I'm missing out on (if anything).

But for the reasons already outlined above by @cskippy they are quite different. I find the bass much more linear and extended on the he-6 with more impact, but the highs are also much more hot, but not as fatiguing as something like an hd800. So sound signature is a huge factor in that decision

 

The 800 is "hotter" than the HE-6? I've never heard either, but for some reason I had the opposite impression from people's remarks. I've been considering both as my TOTL open can, so if you have any additional insight to offer on comparing the two or what sort of music you prefer on them that would be super helpful.

 

I've got both the 800 & he6. He6 is more versitle imo. 800's you have to be selective with music. I don't get that with the he6. I'm not treble sensitive so I can't really give any reliable impressions there. If I didn't own both and had to choose, it'd be the he6 for sure

 

Are either of your cans modded?

 

I should have mentioned I have had the Audeze Vegan pads on my HE-6 since day #1, which have been shown to reduce the treble a measurable amount, here on one of the HE-6 threads. But yes, I find a stock 800 more fatiguing in the treble than an HE-6 with Vegan pads out of a tubed or LISST Mjolnir 2. HD800 + cork mod gets it closer to HE-6+vegan pads in brightness, but still more fatiguing to my ears

I'm actually struggling to determine which I like more, I bought both in the same month unexpectedly as my previous TOTL (ETHER) was stolen in the mail

The HE-6 bass is phenomenal, low and linear with great impact with a great midrange. I listen to a lot of stuff, but mainly various genres of rock with some pop, electronic and classical/orchestral thrown in. Anything bass-centric I reach for the 6, but lean more towards the 800 for classical/orchestral stuff. The 800 destroys in weight and comfort though, even with HE-6 vegan pads. If I am doing something where I have to look down at my desk (i.e. grading papers) instead of just up at the computer screen, it's always the 800. Sorry I can't be more helpful as it's something I'm still trying to parce out myself, 2-3 months into ownership

Edit: I also agree with @Ray that the HE-6 might be a little more versatile as far as genres, but I'm learning to love just about everything on the 800 especially since I've started modding

 

Neither one of my phones are modded as of yet. Still haven't gotten to it. I've got the hd800 cork mod material on its way. Both are really fantastic phones. Good choice either way you decide to go.

 

I have a hard time believing that the 4W @ 50 ohms the Lyr 2 can push will be insufficient for the HE-6.

 

Having that exact amp, I've been thinking the same thing. We are still talking about driving a pair of headphones, right?

 

Not exactly. In the same way that the K1000s are a not exactly. They are headphones but they have a very specific set of power requirements. I own the HE-6 HD800 and HD650 so I'll chime in.

1) Re: amping the HE-6. In my experience, you want a speaker amp. This doesn't mean you have to spend a ridiculous amount of money. Lots of people are using vintage receivers from the 70s and 80s that they picked up, after servicing was complete for less than $700. And these amps, unlike their modern counterparts, don't have gimped headphone outs so you can use it as a normal headphone amp as well.

2) HD800 are hotter than the HE-6 in my opinion in terms of fatigue. That isn't to say that the HE-6 aren't bright but I've always perceived their treble more as being crisp and detailed rather than being fatiguing. It's somewhat hard to describe but I feel like you hear everything in a detailed fashion without having to pick music somewhat carefully.

3) In terms of which is the best in that trio, it depends on what you want. If you're looking for low maintenance, easy to listen to etc. HD650s easily. I sold my HE-6 in favor of the HD650s a couple years ago because I didn't have the money for an amp/dac solution that could get the HE-6 up to their potential while I could afford a Crack w/Speedball which obviously made the HD650s sound quite good. HD650s also have those nice romantic mids. However, if you enjoy the HD650s mids but want more bass extension/refinement and more treble I would strongly suggest the HE-6. It has the same sort of warmth and smoothness in the mids but they're a lot tighter, more precise and technically superior. And I don't find anything offensive about them like I occasionally do with the HD800s. Granted, I haven't, and won't, mod my HD800s or HE-6 as I like them for what they are and am not trying to make a daily driver out of either of them. As far as the HD800, I'd say its equally or maybe more difficult to power than the HE-6 because with the HE-6 synergy is less of a concern (still important of course) than making sure that they're powered correctly while for the HD800s, you want to make sure that your setup is designed to fit the HD800s or you have the time/patience/ability to mod them to make them conform to your setup. I would also say the HD800s are the better reference if you're strictly trying to investigate a recording since they feel more like a microscope than the HE-6 do which are very technically strong but at the same time quite musical.

Short version, if we're talking just about the HE-6 vs HD650s, I'd say get both. 650s are cheap and they're good as a break from something like the HE-6 when you just want to hear the liquid mids and relax, however I'd say the HE-6 are a fair bit superior to the HD650s in bass, treble, soundstage and detail retrieval. For me the 650s allure isn't so much that it's good technically speaking it's just that its so addicting to listen to.

 

Cheers for the reply. My HD650's got sold because LCD-2.1 just did that smooth sound sig better: flatter bass and better resolution in the highs especially. I still have a pair of 600's, though. Great for mixing - not as "nice" sounding with bad mixes.

 

ill second that you don't have to a bunch of money on an amp for the he-6. I got a speaker amp for 200ish, and improvements were very noticable compared to my carbon. Fleabay has many vintage amps out there that would work great & are very affordable.

 

I have both but primarily use the HE-6. You know what I miss about using headphones other than the HE-6 though? Having a reasonable sized amp that doesn't take up my entire desk.

 

Some great posts here.

So anyone heard the HE-6 with the Lyr?