Feliks-Audio Elise Tube Amp Review (NOT)

Oh my, I'm done with a business trip to DC and am now flying back!

All good points. Some answers:

1. SBAF's pruning policy is generally not to prune. The belief is that it is better for people to let off steam. I guess I could have sheparded the posts in a more gentle direction. But I didn't want to because I was getting some laughs.
2. I'm sure some of the weirdo tube rollers reading this thread at HF are probably thinking we are a bunch of asses (actually, I believe they did call us that). They are absolutely correct. But keep in mind that I tried to set a direction in my initial posts to focus on the amp. Let this be a lessen to them on the consequences of such actions, especially in one's very first post. Yes. I am letting the amp, the readers, and the weirdo tube rollers being punished. This thread has basically turned to shit. People learn best when they are allowed to make mistakes.
3. We all have different points of view, different preferences, etc. However, we do not subscribe to the "everybody is right in their own way" philosophy. Certain things are plainly wrong. I would hope at that at the bare minimum that those weirdo tube rollers ask Feliks Audio what the current rating is for the voltage regulators for the filament heaters (I didn't take the amp apart to inspect it). But not knowing this before insano stacking of tubes is wrong. That being said, I do not give a crap about what they do there. I only care about the people here.

 

Day 1 with the Elise (Mullard and Sylvania tubes):

- Treble has a somewhat sweet and soft character to it. Overall this is a much more positive thing than not, as it usually doesn't sound dull or rolled. Sometimes this can make things sound a tiny bit softer than they should but has the upside of not losing detail despite this.

- Relatively good top end extension. Good air.

- Stage has good width but is compressed with depth. Stage is a bit on the pushed back side of things, though this is preferential. More of a 2D plane of sound than I'd prefer, and usually get from other tube amps.

- Relatively fast sounding.

- Good resolution and detail retrieval.

- Upper-bass through lower-mids sound kind of loose and ill-defined. Slightly one note and tubby. Slightly accentuated.

- Lacks a bit when it comes to low-bass extension, which affects a sense of power or some macro dynamics primarily. However, micro-dynamics are quite good.

- Has this sort of diffuse sound separate from and independent of the slightly soft treble. Sounds like it's adding additional reverb or giving everything a slightly fuzzy, dual ghost image of everything, almost. This is probably my least favorite thing about the amp with these tubes. Doesn't sound "together" and "focused."

- The hard-to-explain-how-but-definitely-related upside to the point directly above was a sense of rich and euphonic, harmonic midrange. I'm almost sure this wasn't "right," in that it was coloration, but it had a certain pleasing aspect to it.

- Not quite as liquid as my modded Super 7 or Crack + SB, but not as dry as the Valhalla 2 throughout the midrange and treble.

So far, certainly an enjoyable amp. It looks classy and feels good. The sound is pleasing if not exactly what I need to stay engaged. I prefer it to the Valhalla 2 so far, if nothing else because it is a bit more lively, less dry, and sweeter sounding.

However, I am wondering if some of my less positive points are due to the tube selection, primarily the Mullards. I tried a similar-ish tube in the Crack and ended up preferring the 5998 and am sensing similar traits with the Mullards in the Elise, I think. I don't have matching 6080 pairs or equivalent tubes on hand, so all I have to try is the Russian 6080 equivalents. I do have some 6SN7 pairs on hand I can try with brief rolling, however.

Not being content to just walk away with this all fresh in my mind, I just went ahead and swapped out the Mullards real quick while working on this post, and I actually think I prefer the Russian tubes. They make some things better, some different but neither better or worse, and some things worse. They sound more focused, more lively, more neutral, but have a less well-defined midrange, are a bit dry and rough sounding, and still don't fix the low bass extension. I'll have to give them more time and come back tomorrow.

 

My only concern is shipping costs on my end and that I'd be worried about keeping the amp away from the owner longer than they'd like! The first I can pretty easily manage if the owner is OK, but I'm thinking the differences between Mullard and Russian tubes alone paints a pretty clear picture even based on an initial listen. I would have to assume that with the right tube combo for each person, maybe the only thing really missing is bass extension (minor issue) and some of the special magic that separates the really good stuff from the TOTL stuff (a non issue given the price of the Elise, which is VERY fair).

 

Thanks @Hands for getting us back on track. Where the Elise could benefit the most would be a better power supply. Obviously, this was built to a certain price point.

FYI, the "hypnos" incident resulted in the #1 hourly number of sessions and #2 daily sessions of all time.

 

Oh, I was thinking, anyone hoping this thing will match or best a good EC tube amp with the frankentube type setup, or any tube setup, is dumb and maybe a bit delusional, or at least shiny-new-toy biased. That's not to say it isn't good. It is, and it's priced fairly.

Like I said, I can work with loaner tubes, but the owner will have to say if I can hold onto the amp longer for that.

 

Day 2: Tube Rolling

Seeing as how I have more pairs of 6SN7 tubes than I know what to do with (thanks, Super 7 and cheap eBay listings!), I did some tube rolling today with the Russian 6080 equivalent tubes. Towards the end I will comment on a pairing I thought worked better with the Mullards than the Sylvanias. I hope you are able to make sense of this, since this is more or less a copy/paste of my notes, which I wrote as I went along. Tube rolling comparisons can start to get messy and tricky the deeper you go.

CBS/Hytron - tall bottles, top t-plates
- Very balanced and relatively neutral sounding with a hint of sweetness and warmth (helps balance out any rough edges in paired/combo tubes or amps)
- Good extension at both ends minus inherent bass roll off of amp
- Proper sounding stage and focus. Good width
- Not as explosive sounding as other tubes, but not dull, sleepy, or compressed
- Bass pitch and texture could be a bit better
- Overall very good and currently one of my favorite 6sn7 tubes because they're fairly balanced sounding and sort of act as a palette cleanser with a bit of sweetness. If your amp is too dry or lean, these can help. If it's too bassy, these can help. Too bright, can also help. It's kind of weird how they do that.
- These share some sonic similarities the vt-231 Sylvanias or the later "Bad Boy" 6sn7 iteration of that
(Side note, I tend to prefer Hytron over RCA if you're looking for that sort of sound.)

Tung Sol - USA NOS, short bottle, triangle black plates
- Sounds a little thicker and bassier than the Hytrons, which helps with this amp's inherent characteristics
- Brighter than Hytrons...maybe brightest tube of the bunch I have
- Very neutral sounding, not warm, not particularly sweet either but mostly quite balanced if you lean towards liking the super or slight-bright side of neutral
- Stage is upfront and immediate, in your face...can be too much, actually, in a fatiguing way
- Has a very gripping, fast, lively sound. Hooks you in right away but might overstay its welcome
- Not as smooth as Hytrons and can be a hair bright with the russian tubes (mids are a bit shouty)
- This seems like a really good tube to start with and roll 6080s, if you mixed it with a warmer, sweeter pair of 6080s
- Try to find tall bottles of this if you can, usually the older the better

Westinghouse - tall bottle, black plates w/ 3 ribs and 2 holes (Yes, Westinghouse made their own tubes!)
- These are like an interesting mix between the Hytrons and Tung Sols.
- Has the larger/wider, not as in-your-face stage as the Hytrons
- Slightly sweet sound and slightly warm like Hytrons. Treble is good
- Has the slightly more lively, meatier quality like the Tung Sol, but not as powerful or deep
- Midrange is good...nothing really stands out as too soft or too sharp, nothing accentuated
- Throwing in some hyperbole, if the Hytron is a bit upside-down U-shaped at the extremes with everything very balanced in the middle, and the Tung Sol is a bit more the opposite with a less smooth midrange, including upper-mids, the Westinghouse kinda sits right in between. It is a slightly warm, but fairly neutral tube that is not as exciting as some or as sweet and smooth as others, but it occupies it's own little space because of this.

Sylvania - tall bottle, black triangle plates (real chrome dome?)
- A little bit thicker and more powerful sounding than the Hytron but not quite as much as Westinghouse or Tung Sol (leans towards the latter two, though)
- Seems to have less bass extension than the Westinghouse and Tung Sol, about the same as Hytron
- Upper end is slightly sweet like the Hytron, which are both a bit sweeter than the Westinghouse
- Upper mids and lower treble are a bit dry sounding but nothing major...slightly sibilant
- Has a lot of potential but probably doesn't mesh as well with the russian tubes

RCA - grey bottle, VT-231
- Has a sort of lushness and euphony in the bass and mids that is somewhat unique to the RCA family sound, at least for 6SN7s
- Bass extension not the best, has exaggerated and slightly thick/poorly defined upper-bass through lower-mids
- Shares a similar upper-mid/lower-treble sibilance and dryness like the Sylvania tall boy
- Stage is more similar to the Tung Sol, more intimate and in-your-face but is a much more relaxed sounding tube overall than the TS
- Macro dynamics seem a bit compressed

RCA - short bottle, side getter, dark plates
- These are the real cheapy ones you can get in bulk on eBay
- Shares a lot of similar traits to the VT-231...I might prefer this one though
- Seems to be a bit better with bass extension and dynamics than VT-231
- Still has that upper-bass through low-mid thickness and looseness, but somehow seems better integrated
- Sibilance still there but better controlled
- Retains that almost stereotypical RCA lush sound
- Neither this or the vt-231 have the best clarity but they have their own traits that a lot of people like

RCA - short bottle, somewhat opaque grey glass (but has some transparency unlike VT-231), JAN, clear bottom on glass
- Shares so many of the same traits as the other RCAs that I don't even care to try to listen for differences
- Probably more similar to the side getter/clear bottles

Sylvania - short bottle, black T-plates (not angled/not triangle), chrome splashing on top
- These tubes are everywhere and fairly cheap...I think I had 4-5 pairs at one point, since I got some with the MPX3 I used to have and some with the S7
- I feel these sound like what people wish RCA tubes were, or at least what I expected from RCA based on impressions I read
- Has that sort of bassy sound with better extension and clarity than RCAs
- Reduced sibilance and better balance across the board than RCAs
- Better dynamics than RCAs
- Treble is a bit sweet but still has that Sylvania timbre (see slightly sibilant or hard sounding)
- Not the most liquid or sweet tube on the list, but definitely a strong contender for a full, lush, engaging sound in a good way
- Not as clear and resolving as some other tubes, but there are trade offs no matter where you look in every tube. They still do well with clarity and details, and I'd rather have a full sounding tube that does OK in these areas than a lean or dull tube that is magical with details or staging.

Sylvania - tall bottlle, "bad boy" (top T-plates, chrome on bottom)
- These seem to retain the nice stage and balanced, slightly sweet sound of the Hytrons but have more bass
- Not as bassy as the short Sylvanias directly above or as lively as the Tung Sols
- Almost a mix between Hytrons and the short Sylvanias directly above...they kind of have that thick, but not rca loose, sound, and good dynamics with the Sylvania mid and treble timbre, but have the good stage too and the most sweetness of any of the Sylvanias
- They are very good tubes because of this...kind of like the Westinghouse, short bottle Sylvania (directly above), and Hytron had a baby

The Sylvanias included, short bottle with black triangle plates sound the most similar to the tall bottle, triangle plate Sylvanias I have. Fairly balanced, not the bassiest, not the sweetest, not the widest, not the smoothest, and generally not the best fit with the Russian tubes. Remember, I did not like the Mullard + Sylvania combo that Marv used.

But that got me thinking...Was there a tube pair that I'd like with the Mullards? I thought about the Mullard sound. It's soft, diffuse, had that weird reverb/duplicate image thing going on, sweet overall, euphonic mids, warm, etc. and thought the Tung Sol had the best traits to counter that.

Mullard 6080s + Tung Sol 6SN7 (see above)
- Soundstage is less diffuse sounding, more focused
- More ballsy and dynamic sounding than with the Sylvanias
- Still has that weird reverb/double image effect going on with the overly harmonic/rich mids
- Not as soft and sleepy overall

I didn't listen for very long or take further notes, because the Mullards just sound like they're mucking shit up in a bad way. I could see someone liking this sound, though, and the Tung Sols were about the best fit (or counter-fit) I could find for the Mullards.

Next up, Crack comparisons.

(Side note, and FWIW, I use a mixture of Hytrons, Sylvania Bad Boys, and the Sylvania short bottle/T-plates in my Super 7 with a particular RCA driver tube that doesn't really match the sound characteristics of those above - better extension, cleaner bass and mids, smoother, etc. The caps and tubes I picked were meant to add some bass and body to the sound due to the Mk2 transformers while keeping the good traits of the transformers. If that helps anyone know where I'm coming from.)

 

Day 2 (Again): Crack Comparison

OK, while my modded Super 7 was my point of reference in my initial listening tests, that might not be fair to the Elise. The Super 7 has inherently better extension, especially in the bass, better dynamics (micro and macro), more resolution, more clarity, and the ability for a more 3D soundstage.

I've never heard a stock Crack, or stock Crack + SB, but I don't imagine it would best the Elise. My particular Crack has several mods: PSU choke, Goldpoint stepped attenuator, upgraded output caps, Speedball, and the 5998 really seems to be the best 6080 equivalent tube I've tried in it. Believe it or not, I really like how the new production Gold Lion 12AU7 sounds in this configuration. It's surprisingly balanced, has good space, isn't too colored tonally or timbrally, and just seems to "work."

Keeping in mind DIY vs non-DIY, if you're smart and buy wisely, I think you can get a similar Crack + tubes for less than you'd spend on a base Elise + upgraded tubes on that, because I don't think everyone is going to want to run with the non-upgraded tubes. This seems like a more fair comparison in my mind.

I used the short bottle, T-plate Sylvanias in the Elise for this, since that would give me the most similar sound between the amps and still let the Elise's inherent traits show through.

- The Crack also has bigger balls and better bass extension than the Elise. It sounds heftier and more powerful.

- Both have somewhat muddy and poorly defined bass and lower-mids. I had a hard time telling which was better. It all seemed to depend on the music.

- The Crack has a smaller, closer, more in-your-face soundstage. This can be engaging sometimes, and sometimes unwanted. The Elise has a more "proper" stage, in that it sits further back and is wider sounding.

- Both do similarly well with detail retrieval and resolution.

- The Crack has a more natural tone and timbre. More liquidity without being too soft or mushy. Vocals in particular can sound eerily real on the Crack.

- The Crack can start to trip over itself and have a harder time separating elements in extremely complex or "messy" music, but it still holds its own. This is just relative.

- The Elise is a little bit faster.

- The Crack is better with macro and micro dynamic swings.

Overall Ramblings:

I think a lot of people underestimate how good a highly modded Crack with the right tubes can sound. Sure, it's always going to have a more in-your-face stage, and, sure, the high output Z is going to muck up anyone's search for bass perfection on the sort of headphones that pair well with it, but it does a hell of a lot right and doesn't leave me wanting if I can't use my S7.

Personally, I think I would rather have my particular Crack than the Elise, even though it looks ugly as sin in comparison and works well with a smaller selection of headphones. Ultimately, the Elise is a bit too rolled at the low end for my tastes and doesn't sound as natural in the midrange to me as the Crack or S7, with what tubes I've been able to roll at least.

Of course, that's all preferential. The Elise is a damn good amp and responds well to tube rolling. Could I live with it if I had to, and happily? Absolutely. It's more in the vein of the Valhalla 2 in terms of sound, but better in most ways as far as I can tell. For $700, and a bit more if you pick other tubes wisely and buy cheap on eBay, the Elise is a good value in my mind. The Crack is also a good value but is DIY (hint: buy pre-made, pre-modded, and have a friend mod it further for you if you can't). The Super 7 is just a stupid good value but very hard to find these days, so I should be realistic with comparisons and recommendations.

Blah, blah, yack, yack, I'll say it again, overall the Elise is priced very fairly and responds well to tube rolling if you look at readily available, pre-made tube amps on the market. It's very balanced sounding and only really suffers compared to TOTL amps when it comes to low-end extension, crazy dynamics, and a sense of pristine clarity and resolution. But, hey, it's $700, and it's a nice step up from something like the Valhalla 2.

 

FYI, for those of you looking in this price range, I wouldn't rule out the Mjolnir 2. Think suped up Valhalla 2 with a more liquid, dynamic sound. The Elise sounds more like what you'd expect from a tube amp relatively. DIY, you're looking at highly modded Crack (or Crack 2), Elekit, or T3 if your budget allows. They all have their differences, pros, and cons, but all worth considering.