General Headphone Advice

I have both HD800 and HD650 fully modded and for me it's quite simple. When i'm listening to HD800's i think about oh i should change this, try that mod, maybe some EQ. Get moar gear etc.. When i listen to the HD650's i think about the music. Music comes to life in the mids and that's where the 650 beats the crap out of the 800's to me.

I suspect there will be a HD800 in the for sale section soon.

 

Yes! The HD800 simply has a really weird midrange tonality. I don't understand how some people on HF can talk about the "perfect neutrality of the HD800".
[I have a feeling that mods can fix this issue for the most part (Oh god, not this again - HD800 mods). I had been running mods in the past that elevate the 2-3kHz region over neutral (when compared to an HD600).]
What you just described is essentially what I meant in my last post. I've been listening to the HD600 for the past few hours and I spent no time thinking about HD600 mods or changes to my system. The HD6X0s are the perfect cans for just enjoying the music. They also scale extremely well.

 

Ok guys now you're taking it too far. Pretty sure sbaf doesn't allow HD800 haters, I believe it's in the code somewhere. Except Purrin, he can hate everything because that's his thing apparently.

 

The price difference between a new HD650 and a new HD800S (Amazon Prime prices as of today) is almost exactly the price of a Black Widow or a pimped out Torpedo III: $1,245.

Worth thinking about IMO if budget is a concern.

 

There is no headphone that I hate more than the HD800. I got really angry at it in the past (I'm serious about this btw). I nearly threw it on several occasions. Mine actually has a Colorware paintjob after some of the shit that happened to it.
There is also no other headphone that I love more than the HD800. No headphone comes close at what the HD800 does well. This is what makes it so hard to live with such drawbacks in essential things like frequency response. (This is also what makes me hate it in the first place. I simply don't care for stuff like AKG K812, HD700, T1, ...)

I'm tired. I should probably sleep now.

 

What would be a proper thread to continue this discussion? I mean sure, it would be interesting to quantify that HD800 driver parameters are these and that, measurements say this and that, so it must be better. Sorry, I can't argue with these stuff since I have no data to give. I hear differences between dacs and amps too, which all probably measure beyond the well known "hearing ability". Mutec makes a difference too. These all would be great to quantify to few "better" parameters, but honestly I'd just rather enjoy the music than try to justify to myself what I'm hearing.

 

Whelp, so my Gustard H10 suffered a total meltdown after one of the op-amps went sour and now I'm in the market for a new tube amp! I was looking at either the G1217 Sunrise III / ember II or the Schiit Valhalla 2. My chain is Schiit Wyrd > Bifrost Multibit > amp > Hd650M (Main cans), Zmf Omni, and Oppo Pm-2. Or any amp suggestions under $400 would be fantastic.

The Gustard wreck sure does make a nice paperweight though..

 

2 planars and one dynamic. You could go the Lyr 2 or the Valhalla2+Magni2U route, depending on how much you use the 2 planars. Just remember that dynamics are way more revealing of good gear, and the Val2/HD650 pairing is kind of the best pairing under 1k depending on who you ask.

 

I made a tour the capability in modding and comparing HD650, HD800 and HE-6 to get my own head clear about what is what.
Midrange dynamics, micro-dynamics is where HD650 and HD800 are roughly equal. All the comparisons is made with modded hp-s, with roughly most recent mods applied.
HD650 surpasses HD800 in overall tonality for 60% of music I listen to.
That is a good chunk of metal/rock and edm among orchestral and jazz. HD800 is flat out better for 90% of orchestral music. They produce the same quartet recording that I listened live much closer to the mark than HD650.
That to me says that HD650 is dark no matter how one mods it. I think that dark is just easier to live with than bright. The HD800 is not less neutral to my ears.
HD650 is flat out better for 90% of older metal/rock, though.
HE-6 out of EC 2A3 doesn't compete.

On my head the HD800 3k dip doesn't exist, instead I hear it louder than 1k and 4k, at least by comparing to other headphones.

If you are really after most resolution then EQ is out of the question.
To my ears no amount of modding or EQ makes HD800 tonaly similar to HD6X0. Which of these is most neutral or pleasing is up to the listener it seems.
In regards of technical ability HD800 is in another class in most areas.

 

If I was looking for "most resolution", then I guess I would own Yggdrasil instead of Gungnir Multibit etc. Throwing blanket statements about EQ resolution is pointless without a reference. You can do minimal EQ or massive EQ or anything in between. Pretty sure big part of the "resolution" stuff is simply related to FR itself. There are always tradeoffs in this hobby. One can always blind test EQ engines, simply do a minor 0.1dB change somewhere and compare.. do you hear a resolution loss? Do a massive cut at 6khz.. well I'm pretty sure you will percieve this as resolution loss.. preprocess files with different engines and do a foobar2000 abx..

Why would it need to be similar to HD6X0? Just do the tonality that pleases you. There are many curves to choose from.

 

I've tried the commonly recommended stuff, too much to list them.
I can pick up some EQ-s in chain with no filter applied, simply lowering gain by 1 dB. I've done my share of testing, even went for the struggle with a few better EQ-s to do blind tests, tried all known cross-feeds etc. Very hard to pick out the better ones with just 1 dB attenuation applied, but in time they always seem to make their presence felt negatively, even though the tonality itself is improved. The upsides have yet to outweigh the downsides for me.
EQ pulls a sheen over the music, very slight, but the fine trails in music are lost or feature some grain/hash.
I wonder if you have listened to an analog synthesizer straight out of its analog out vs recorded by adc and then played back by a daw or any soft player. Sure there are more variables like synth's analog stage vs amp etc. In short the synth's straight out is way better. EQ on music has similar effect only less severe.
That is just my point of view. I can understand why you use EQ, we have different priorities.

 

Many say the same about speaker calibration, generally speaking bass frequency have EQ applied and the rest above 500-1000Hz are not touched as it affects the "voicing" of the speaker. I think in that case the slight loss is offset by the gains. Of course many auto EQ's also use some kind of housecurves.

 

I really like the Garage 1217 Polaris with the 650s. Way better than entry level $300-$400 OTL or quasi OTL tube amps, imo. I am not one who automatically thinks you have to use tubes with the 650s, though. Although some great pairings that I have heard were tubes, like the Elekit and Super 7.

 

Anyone has experience with the Little Dot amps and the HD650?

 

I ended up ordering the polaris, I figure that it's a happy medium between raw power for my planars and the "tube-like" presentation for my Hd650's, plus G1217 always gave me good vibes with their friendly support. I'll report my thoughts when I finally get them. And thanks for the tip!

(Also purple is kinda my thing, so that's just gravy)

 

you are welcome. My playing (er, acute listening) with settings on the Polaris led me to flat response (no roll off), medium gain, and low impedance. YMMV but good starting points with the 650s to my ears.

 

I essentially traded a Valhalla2 for a Polaris and a Vali. At the time, I was listening to planars (he500, lcd2) more than dynamics (Hd600 and dt880) and I found the Valhalla2 unsuitable for the planars and iems (of course). I've since sold the lcd2s, but the Polaris works well with everything with massive adjustability and therefor flexibilty. The Vali also works well with everything but iems and low impedance cans like the k553. If I had the $, (I don't and probably won't) I might consider something like a BW or a Liquid Carbon, but I am pretty happy with where I am now and might not change even with the opportunity. BTW, I like the sound of the 600s and 880s on the medium output impedence setting.

 

Here is a link to the post on InnerFidelity where I first saw the PowerPoint document linked above, with some comments by Tyll Hertsens:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...eadphones-state-flagships#82qB8HUd2oOTClRk.97.