Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash

I've been listening to the Huron update for a few hours. I've owned the DirectStream long enough to experience two firmware updates (Torreys and now Huron). I thought the Torreys update was rather subtle, but I also hadn't owned the DS for very long at that point. The Huron, update, however, basically sounds like an entirely new DAC, akin to a higher-tiered unit in the same product family. The improvements with each firmware update remind me a little bit of how game developers learn to squeeze more performance out of fixed game console hardware throughout each console generation.

This update doubles the internal upsampling rate from 10x DSD to 20x DSD, which seems like a pretty big internal change. I still have to move the DS around to my main 2-channel setup and do some headphone listening as well, but my initial impression is that the update addresses most of the weaknesses I perceive when I compare the DS to other high-end DACs (namely low-end dynamics and extension), while also improving many other aspects that I thought were already good.

 

Hi,
This is my first post on this forum, so hopefully, after reading the guidance, I'll behave..
After reading the review of Yggdrasil on TAS (and the debated Stereophile..), browsing more about the topic, I found them interesting and went through all your impressions on numerous DAC's, as compered with Yggi. I currently own most of Chord's in your list and also an older QBD76HD (DAVE was on a long visit home, also Bryston BDA3), and listened to some more on your list.
I'm mostly listening through my stereo systems and occasionally on headphones and found that various DAC's are better suited to a certain kind of listening, music, the assessment criteria being how long do I enjoy listening uninterrupted. And that all the partnering gear must be carefully selected in order to highlight the good parts of any DAC. There is no perfect solution.
Cutting this short, Yggdrasil entered my wishlist.
So your reasoned view would be appreciated. Especially considering with what you've matched Yggi and why (maybe I've missed some posts..).
Thank you,
Vlad

 

Hi @Vlad12, welcome to SBAF!

One of my main criteria (besides what you wrote) for a DAC is to work well for different types of listening (e.g. laid-back vs attentive) and especially to sound great with the majority (ideally 100%) of my music collection. This is something both the Modi MB and Yggdrasil excel at IMO. The same can't be said of many other DACs I have heard, including quite a few at or above Yggdrasil price point.

In other words, there is a (near) perfect solution, you just haven't found it yet
If you have to change all your other gear when trying a new DAC, either your gear is garbage, or the new DAC is

 

If we are splitting hairs (since we are!) Yggdrasil is not the most universally matching dac I have tried and when someone can handle having many dacs around I can't see why not matching gears.
Yggdrasil has flaws and some of these can exacerbate in unison with gear that sins in similar ways (for example Jot + Yggdrasil, both have trouble in hihat timber).
I say in such scenario Yggdrasil should be matched with gear that lets it do what other dacs can't quite reach, microdynamics and stage precision.

I agree. One can only chose the compromises he can live with. Having shit loads of dacs and partnering chains around is also a compromise.

 

Gear pairing is the most difficult part, and why it's useful to read what has worked for others.

I can tell you that Yggdrasil -> Mjolnir 2 (with tubes) -> HiFi Man Edition X V2 is as near perfect for me as I could hope for. Those headphones are on the softer side so tend to mask aggressive gear. The MJ2 with tubes adds a touch of syrup too. In total the chain is revealing, musical sounding, without anything harsh jumping in your face. Digital glare is near non-existent with this combo.

Yggdrasil adds something I've never heard from any other DAC (not that I've heard many). Clarity, tonal correctness, tight bass, liveliness and energy (but of course the later can be too much if the chain after is on the aggressive side). It's an amazing DAC, but yes, could be too much of a good thing if the rest of the gear isn't a good match.

 

Hi,
Thank you for such prompt replies.
To be more precise in my quest, I found that HD800, even with Cardas Clear cable sounds to sharp on Hugo TT, but the TT linked to a Bryston BHA1, the same HD800 balanced, are far more enjoyable. AQ Nighthawks are too congested on TT, but clearly more listenable with Mojo. QuteEX also melts some sharp edges. etc..etc
In the same time, the TT sounds fantastic, in my opinion, on my speaker system.
I'm trying to understand through your posted experiences, more details concerning the Yggii's character.
Through all the comparison made with other dac's, ones with gear which I'm thoroughly familiar, I've understood much concerning the parameters which are appreciated by the listener, and consequently what Yggi actually does to please him. I share more than one.
So, what was the partnering gear for Yggi when compared with all other dac's?
Thanks,
Vlad

 

@Vlad12 you'll find some details of Torq's gear (and a photo) in the first post of this thread, may not be completely up to date now of course.

 

In most cases, the DACs were auditioned in my primary headphone rig. The basic, most consistent, chain for that was:

Roon -> Auralic Aries -> AES -> Yggdrasil -> WA5-LE Mk2/Ragnarok​

And that was feeding:

Abyss AB-1266, Audeze LCD-4 and HD800S headphones and with more recent comparisons there's the addition of the Focal Utopia.​

The WA5-LE is the latest version, with the upgraded parts package, and generally runs Takatsuki 274B rectifiers, Takatsuki 300B power tubes, and NOS Sylvania 6SN7GT signal tubes.

It was not possible to use that chain for every comparison, however. While any specific comparison with Yggdrasil was done back-to-back with the DAC(s) in question, and the system used was common for those units in that particular evaluation, the same system was not used in all cases. For example, the system I listened to the TotalDAC in belongs to a friend of mine in the UK. We had both Yggdrasil and the TotalDAC in that rig at the same time, but it was not the rig I run at home.

But in most cases, unless noted otherwise, it's the rig you see above - and I used the WA5-LE and Ragnarok to get both tube and solid-state perspectives.

Then for proper sound-stage impressions I used my speaker rig which, at the time, comprised a Linn Akurate DS/1, Linn Akurate 4200 amplifiers actively driving Linn Akudorik speakers and a Dominion D-108 sub.

Things change, however ...

Today, while the primary chain is the same, the Ragnarok has been put into my "day job" office system. Solid-state headphone amp duties for these comparisons is now handled by an iFi Pro iCAN. Also, my latest speaker system upgrades render it not-very-useful for evaluating other components as it's an all active Linn Exakt system that would put an an external DAC through the Linn's ADC and the speaker's DACs ... so I generally won't be doing those sorts of comparisons going forward.

 

Thank you for all the details. Now I have a much clearer picture.
More questions though.
AES was chosen as being the best solution, sound wise, as compared with BNC or USB? Is this related to the source or Yggi?
Analog outputs were equally XLR? Are there significant differences between balanced /rca's?
Based upon all I've read here, my mind is already set to order the Yggi. Now with this additional details, I'm trying to picture which would be the best setup.
Sounds exciting!
You were very helpful. Looking forward to read your reply.
Vlad

 

XLR in and out are ideal. This should be high on your list of options for input:

http://www.atterotech.com/products/dante-aes-o/

 

There's a lot of details in this thread and older Changstar threads.
Use the search for specific impressions and details: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?pages/FeaturedContent/
Essentially with a similar quality source Yggdrasil has been said to sound best with AES input, and sound best with balanced output directly as the SE outputs are through summing circuits that are not the best they could be. If your amplifier only takes single ended an external transformer to go from balanced XLR to single ended RCA is sonically better.

 

I have generally found that AES, when available and delivered by a good transport/streamer, is the best sounding option on most DACs. That's definitely been the case for me with Yggdrasil. I don't use USB for audio on the basis that I've never heard it outperform the other available options.

Where balanced (XLR) outputs/inputs are available, that's what I use.

Not all DACs have them, of course.

It's worth noting that the WA5-LE is a single-ended topology that has transformer-based convenience inputs/outputs for balanced connections. Ragnarok and the iFi Pro iCAN are fully balanced. Since I don't hear a particular difference with the WA5-LE regardless of which inputs I use, I stick to balanced as the Ragnarok is very definitely better in balanced mode (due to it's topology) and, in general, it means only dealing with one type of cabling.

 

Thank you for all your help.
I'll report about my impressions when Yggi will settle at home.
All the best,
Vlad

 

I have to disagree for a couple reasons. First software is commonly patched, updated, improved etc. This could be due to a f**k up or pushing the design further than previously known. IMO, this is just part of the learning and building process.

Secondly the updates are free. Very few companies are offering this. Moreover, any "update" would actually be the a similar unit with the new firmware at a higher price. Schiit's model to upgrade their dacs is highly praised and I also like it. But by your reasoning, really, they should have not dinkered all along with Uber and just released their multibit versions from the get-go leading to a lack of confidence.

Just my humble opinion. I don't intend this to read condescending at all though I realize it might.

 

Exactly what I found. Loved the Yggdrasil technically, but just too energetic for my tastes. Metrum Pavane is working much better for me. I don't think it gives up much ground to the Yggdrasil on the technicalities, and has a more relaxed presentation.

 

Yeah, I was kinda quick to reply, not having the best day. I read the link and it makes more sense. My post was going off of the post above me saying you could hear another octave on the cymbals. I took it as a literal change in frequency response, not a lower noise floor and better micro details.

Of course companies should update their products but a lot of times firmware updates are working out bugs, not improving the original design. I am all for that but it just caught me by surprise. Schiit offering upgrades is brilliant and PS Audio continuing to roll out firmware updates is refreshing. Sorry for jumping the gun without getting all of the information.

 

My issue isn't with the update, it's with the marketing of the update. But then it's a free update, so I'll take it as genuine excitement.

 

I'm always puzzled when I read opinions, which certainly are the honest impressions, but very far away, concerning a dac. HugoTT is actually neither warm, nor strident sounding. It certainly doesn't match HD800, nor AQ Nighthawks more due to the nature or the headphones. I'm just listening the TT singing in my main system, an elaborate one ending with Raidho speakers. The sound is very natural, balanced, the bass has depth, energy, texture and definition, far, far away from what you could appreciate as just warm. Everything which is beyond is natural, defined, extended, never strident. And I could never qualify my system as relaxed, is as visceral as music allows.
I honestly believe that headphones are at this moment, just in the childhood of becoming true singers. Speakers have reached maturity. As long as you master the room.
Judging a dac through headphones is therefore prone to just too many variables. True that good matches are found, but generally are the sum of various defaults canceling each other.
Take the example of pairing hd800 with the bha1. The Bryston used as a preamp in a speaker system has a totally different nature than through the hd800. I believe that the former is the true one.

 

Yes, uDO > AES > Yggdrasil is terrIfic. Apparent noise floor way down compared to any USB delivery I tried.

A big HOWEVER though, the Dante solution doesn't sample rate follow, so I think it would be a real PITA for those with varied files. Since I'm 99% Redbook, I'm smiling.