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Neurochrome HP-1

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Cspirou, Oct 26, 2016.

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  1. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Yes, I indeed broached the pricing topic. Just didn't want to go too deep into it. Again, $225 for a bare board, to me as a consumer, is expensive. It may be a bargain for someone else.

    Also, I agree with @Hrodulf. To me this is not fully DIY. It's a rework job. Which is fine and does come with it's rewards.
     
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #21
  2. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    @Hrodulf agree. It's DIY only from a component procurement and soldering standpoint. Much like Torpedos, which we consider DIY. DIY means, you build it, you save money in the process. I suspect, and it's only a guess, that Tom doesn't really want to provide fully assembled amps. He wants to sell boards, and essentially prices most people out of the temptation to have him do the build.

    4-layer board... yeah, not seeing it as poorly priced.
     
    bazelio, Oct 27, 2016
    #22
  3. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    He likes THAT chips for input buffering. Considerable circuitry might be responsible for DC sensing. Is it me or there are 4 output stages? Looks like two opamps with a buffer each. Separate output stages for SE and BAL? But still - only a stereo pot. BAL could be summed and then routed through the pot to output stages. The switch controls inputs, most likely.

    I used to be the go-to-guy for Sjostrom when his customers wanted a build. Scared them all away with my prices. Sure, I like it, but it's my responsibility that their cans and dacs don't get cooked by my work.
     
    Hrodulf, Oct 27, 2016
    #23
  4. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Depends on volume. You are not going to sell a lot of finished product in the main stream market if just your board cost is $225.

    And no, I did not crap on my pants when I read 4-layer board, for a headphone amp.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #24
  5. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Right, he's a guy on diyforums.com who designs amps for fun, who works full time at TI (if I recall), and sells at a very low volume. His pricing is set accordingly in my opinion. It's not a $5 part and it's not being sold by the thousands.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
    bazelio, Oct 27, 2016
    #25
  6. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
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  7. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Cspirou, Oct 27, 2016
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  8. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Not going there, because of course my hourly rate to arrive at a manufacturable design of desired performance that I'm going to sell dozens of will dictate my price.
     
    bazelio, Oct 27, 2016
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  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    @bazelio, I don't mean for this to be a hot debate. The designer/seller is with in his full right to price his work however he sees fit.

    If you feel $225 for such a bare board is priced right, life is good.

    The design looks awesome. The features fairly complete.

    By all means carry the conversation... (i.e. let's put aside the pricing)
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #29
  10. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    @bazelio, it seems you had conversations with the designer. Could you share some of his thoughts about the design?
     
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #30
  11. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    It's all good. And I didn't mean to suggest that manufacturing costs were the determining factor. I don't know how much this board "should" cost. But I have a rough idea of how many I'd need to sell at $200 to be worth my while if I had designed it. Also, fully built out at $625 ... even if I knocked $75 off the board price, it just seems like a $550 amp vs a $625 amp is more or less the same thing in terms of price bracket. I could get tomatoes thrown for that, but it is why schiit pricing is so impressive.

    EDIT: I haven't spoken to him about this design. I've only spoken to him about other designs, tool sets, etc. I have a Type 45 HP circuit that he developed over time, and it's sitting in my desk drawer awaiting the light of day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
    bazelio, Oct 27, 2016
    #31
  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Yes. However, if it is hitting all of the performance targets, it's indeed something to behold. It's definitively not magic rocks.

    EDIT: This does wet my appetite a bit. Maybe and eventually I will have more time to toy with stuff like this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #32
  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    This was going to be my guess as well.
     
    Armaegis, Oct 27, 2016
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  14. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Tom once asked me to teach him how to use meaningless superlatives to describe his designs because he's one of those sourpuss engineers who absolutely have to pollute the sonic clarity with measurements and raw data. Heh. I sent him a note letting him know there is interest in learning more about the HP-1.
     
    bazelio, Oct 27, 2016
    #34
  15. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    there's a big ass context gap here. For @ultrabike, $225 isn't a good value. All things aside, that's a high price for him to pay just for a bare board. For reference, he's a big value seeker. I don't think he was commenting on the price in relation to other audio products, but rather in the context of his own willingness to pay :)
     
    zerodeefex, Oct 27, 2016
    #35
  16. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Yup.

    This product is probably not for me for the above reasons. It isn't a good value for me. But it probably is a good value for many other people looking for ultimate performance.

    It seems this product, when well implemented, can yield great performance.

    And I would love to hear the details on how well it does.

    EDIT: BTW, the T3 was brought up to in this thread. I appreciate the level of effort of the T3 as well. There is quite a bit of kool factor to that amp, and it works well with many headphones. The T1 I heard with my HD600 build by @OJneg was a really nice pairing. But all things being equal, I would probably lean towards an HP-1 than a T3 if I was on the market for either one of them. Others may or may not feel differently.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #36
  17. Armaegis

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    It's also physically smaller than the T3, which would be a big plus for some.
     
    Armaegis, Oct 27, 2016
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  18. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    And probably lighter. I also don't know if the HP-1 is class A or class AB. It may run cooler. The numbers in that site are really impressive too, and comes with full balance/SE I/O support.

    It does not have tubes though. And it is probably not a parafeed amplifier, which carries it's own kool factor with it.
     
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #38
  19. Mban

    Mban Facebook Friend

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    I missed the chance to listen to the HP-1 about a week ago, but hopefully I may get the chance in another month or so to give it a listen and share my impressions with everyone |\/|
     
    Mban, Oct 27, 2016
    #39
  20. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I looked for more info on the HP-1 amplifier for the benefit of folks. I found this from Tom regarding his headamp:

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/powe...ll-signal-analog-circuits-23.html#post4868310

    1) The design seems to be using a Switching-Mode Power Supply (SMPS).
    2) There may be a CLC filter (capacitor-input) for the power supply, plus a linear post-regulator.

    I like his multiple-tone IMD test.

    He has done tube amps as well:

    http://www.neurochrome.com/300b-set-amp/

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/218217-deathtrap400-pretty-damn-good-300b-amp.html

    Many projects and products from Tom. He also likes the HD600s judging by the pictures. :)

    The IRM-20-24 that he is using in the headphone amp is a AC to DC 21.6 W power supply module. That much power may indicate that the amp is class-A, but that I don't know.

    EDIT: Given the 450 mW into 300 ohm spec, 11.61 V, and given the 24 V output of the PS, it is possible this is indeed Class A. That's the best I can do about that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
    ultrabike, Oct 27, 2016
    #40
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