Focal Elear and Utopia

Sounds a lot like you're hearing the same weird FR we heard. Gonna wait a while before I post the measurements on my head which seemingly nailed the subjective FR for me. My coupler measurements look in line with @Marvey's.

 

Yikes, can you think of any other headphones that had anywhere near those issues with the LC?

 

Guessing this is single-ended to Liquid Carbon, right? Also, is your LC from the original run or a recent one with "update" to improve the single-ended performance?

 

Yes, SE since the Elear only came with SE cables. My LC is from the original run. I was using the lower/default 1x gain, not the louder 3x gain.

 

Ok, I will be using the same if/when I get a chance to try out the Elear. If you use the HD600 with your integrated amp, what is your preferred headphone to use with the LC?

 

None at all. But let me make clear that I am not the biggest Liquid Carbon cheerleader. I bought it unheard and find it to be a competent amp that hits a price point and has a form factor that will be very good for some. My view of it is not as positive as most of the owners in the HF thread for example. In particular, I do not think it is a great match with my Senn HD 600. But it is quite good with my K7xx and PM-2. Also, it sounds fine with the Senn, just not great and easily bested by other amps with that headphone IMO. But it doesn't sound bad or painful like the experience I had last night.

But it is certainly possible that it is just a particularly bad pairing with the LC and Elear though. I note @sphinxvc's comment about lack of extension on both ends (I believe the Vali 2) and I may have had something similar here. I certainly did not hear the type of bass I had heard described elsewhere. The focus seemed to be on a wonky midrange with a kind of splashy treble. The overall impression for me was too bright (which surprised me given Tyll's review at IF), but not bright in an AKG K7-- series or HD 800 kind of way.

Will try out the EQ mod tonight and report back.

 

I think I'm mostly in the same camp as you. The Elear loaner will have to be listened to in single ended mode for me as well. This will be my first experience doing so, as I knew balanced is the only way to access the LC's full power. Now I have had a very lovely experience with my HD650 and the LC, but that is balanced. When my turn comes closer, I'll switch my HD650 to single ended to get an idea of the power loss.

If only, my Kimber for my Z7 would fit in the Elear. Or if anyone one has any idea for extenders that have 1/8" plugs under 10mm wide?

 

My guess is ear shape affected by design of the basket and rear (port) hole.
Your in ear measurements showed 3 resonant peaks from your own specific ear.
Now we have to measure the NY guys critical ears.
Could be they used to IEMs.

 

I'm not too sure if we hear the resonances our ears add. I can see an 8kHz resonance from my ears both when I measure headphones and when I measure speakers and I think it's inaudible, or at least is part of how I normally hear things. Usually the in-ear measurements are very consistent up to about 4kHz for multiple people, but after that they vary. I'm not exactly sure what's going on with the sharp 6kHz resonance in my Elear in-ear-measurements and I'm not sure anymore if I heard it or not.
The weird thing is how the HD600, HD800 and Elear all measure very similarly from 500Hz to 2kHz on the coupler, but sound (and measure) very differently on the head. I'm not sure if that's just my own head, but if you look closely you can see the same feature on Tyll's dummy head. Right now I'm guessing that HD800, HD600 and Elear drivers just have a very different wavefront in close proximity that change the way they interact with the head. Or maybe it's a function of earcup volume.

 

Any theories about the 4-5Khz dip that exists on the Elear but not the Utopia? Are the drivers the same 3D shape?

Edit:

Looks like Jude's measurements show it's the Elear ear pads that cause it.

 

Focal Elear in the house, here's string of consciousness impressions:


-Carefully packed, amazing presentation and product box
-Removing it out of the product box for the first time might send chills down your spine, it actually looks and feels high end.
-Aluminum yokes are darker than most pictures indicate; very nice subdued look overall
-Headband is way plusher than what you might expect
-Velour earpads kind of have a crunch to them when you put them on and adjust on the head, as if there's newspaper in them, I don't like it particularly myself.
-Plenty of room inside the pads, enough room for my picky tastes.
-Clamping force is a little high for my tastes though; I wonder how much it will lessen over time.

-On my first couple of songs I use to test overall frequency balance, I'm noting a very pleasing and warm sound that's pretty coherent. Bass isn't as overpowering as Marv's impressions or NYer's impressions would indicate. Treble isn't splashy or problematic.
-There's definitely a depression in the 3-4k area that will kill harmonic energy from Violins etc.
-The midrange reminds me a lot of TH-X00 Mahogany, in that it's full out to about 2k, and then takes a dip starting in the 3-4k region, leading to the relaxed Violins. If you're a fan of TH-X00 Mahogany mids, you'll probably like these mids. The lower mids on this are more full-bodied than the TH-X00, most likely due to its open-backed design.
-Bass almost seems to share the TH-X00 mahogany power as well, but without the closed-can added boom. I don't have the TH-X00 anymore to compare side-by-side though, just going off memory.
-Playing with some test tones, the bass actually gets louder at 50hz than 60hz (might be the input impedance of my headphone jack playing with the impedance spike of the Elear at 50hz), but starts to taper off after that. Extension about on par with planars like HE-400, only slightly lagging behind ones like LCD-X.
-Staging isn't large, and is rather in your head, but the sound is open.

There's a general sense of confusion to the sound, due to my playing it off my computer's onboard (hence I'm only commenting on general sound signature). When I get a dedicated amp/dac again, I imagine these will scale nicely. My computer's headphone out might have slightly higher output impedance as well, which might explain why the bass on these got louder at 50hz.)



I can see some people being put-off by the subdued harmonics in the 3-5-k region, but as someone who's used the HD800 and HE-400 for a long time, I don't mind it particularly, and in fact I prefer a more robust lower midrange than upper.

 

I haven't had the oppertunity to listen to Elear yet but I doubt you can make the statement that TH-X00 mids will be similar to Elear mids. The dip in the lower mids on Th-X00 diminishes the body in vocals. If I'm to believe measurements the Elear mids won't do that.

Just a note since my biggest gripe with TH-X00 mids was the lack of body in vocals.

 

There's a slight depression in the lower mids of the TH-X00, which is a pretty universal coloration of closed-back cans in my experience, but it's pretty small compared to most other closed-back cans. Its soundstage is small, but that lack of major lower-mid depression makes it sound rather open.

My TH-X00 didn't show any major lack of body to vocals, but I guess if that's the perspective you're coming from, the Elear certainly disappoint, because it is almost akin to a wall of warmth as Marv mentioned. If the midrange didn't extend out to 2-2.5k with plenty of energy, it might be warm to the point of not being listenable.

 

Honestly given my experience I think it may even be the other way around. I suspect that there is some unit to unit variation with the TH-X00s and that the seal changes the lower mids a lot but I heard it as relatively smooth from 500Hz on with a ton of warmth below that. The Elear sounded weird because I felt the fundamentals region around 500Hz took a backseat compared to the lower mids and bass and the 1-2kHz region.

 

Oh, I never claimed the dip didn't have a legitimate reason to be there, I'm just claiming the mids on these headphones probably doesn't sound as similar as suggested.

 

You'll just have to listen to them for yourself.