Audio GD Singularity 19 - New R2R DAC

Well, if one finds the current audio-gd PCM1704 DAC pricing not competitive, there is no need to buy it. I for myself bought my audio-gd PCM1704 DAC used at the "just a few years ago" price you said.

It is funny for one keep mentioning the "inflated PCM1704 chip" audio-gd sin in a thread about an new audio-gd DAC using economical R2R module replacing the PCM1704 chip.

I myself can also post in the Schitt's preamp thread laughing at the so called "improved" JFET buffer, stating everyone in audio-gd's DIY forum learnt how to build a parallel JFET parrallel Cascode buffer 10 years ago. But what's the point of that? I don't work for audio-gd and have nothing against Schitt.

 

Like others have said, Audio-gd was telling the truth about the BB chips.... By the end, the PCM1704K was selling for like $75 each and finally nixed because it still wasn't cost effective enough for them to keep producing. Multiply 75 by 8 in DAC chips alone and you see why they had to increase prices. They'd be hemorraghing money trying to sell a DAC for $1000 having to pay $600 just in DAC chips.

The guys that truly believe the PCM1704 is nothing special and could be replaced by a couple of discrete resistors, maybe should take a look at the datasheet.

 

I don't speak for anyone else but I'm simply clearing up misinformation in a nice way. The simple fact of the matter is Schiit or anyone else can buy AD5791s whenever they want, and the same cannot be said about the PCM1704. If you feel that is enough for you to become unfriendly, then by all means do whatever you need to do.

Edit: post above me was deleted. I did not double post.

 

OR5 is good, but since been surpassed my many I2S products (the number of products in this category exploded over the last few years).
Also, did you turn off reclocking? That was a massive step in for me, and using an off-board was meaningless without that step (at least for me, from a/b).

Not sure which specific version you had, what revisions went into it, what jumper settings you had. I own the Yggdrasil, have ever since it came out.
I've owned M7 since just before I bought the Yggdrasil. M7 in stock form, is pretty garbage.

After DSP7 update, i2s, jumper settings, it stands toe to toe with my Yggdrasil. It has a clearer, blacker background, but lacks a bit of organics the Yggdrasil has.

IMO/YMMV, AGD is "special". There are a mountain of garbage audio companies out there, before AGD is labeled under par, let us start with those?

Also, I looked up Shanling, Shengya, can't find good store fronts, looks hard to order, no reviews (you heard these products?).
Holo just hit the market months ago, yes the DAC is good, but NOS, not for everyone, still $2500+ with all the tweaks people are buying.
Doge, amps only, looks very AURALiC inspired, you heard their amps?

IMO, AGD is a "special" company, which has products offering that match most of Schiits.
Amp/dac lineups in staggered price categories, for any budget. Multiple combo options.
Quite a few people I know that prefer NFB-11 to Jotun, just to show that AGD does have competing products with Schiit in many categories.

Who sells DACS/AMPS/Combos/Power Amps at reasonable prices that sound good?
Schiit... who else?

There's a lot of love for AGD, (not on sbaf) but in general around the internet, and I believe it is founded.

 

Its a special chip but it has weaknesses. Over the past 10 years I have owned 6~7 dacs that use the 1704 from various manufacturers (Lite audio, Monarchy, agd). The similarities are strong. That being said, before I got the Yggdrasil the only dacs that lasted more than 6 months in my house had that chip in them.

You are right and turning off reclocking was a major improvement for me when I owned the Master 7. I had a Channel Islands Audio Transient MK2 running HDMI into the M7. That being said it was beaten soundly by The Yggdrasil using the awful USB input. There is no chance it would compete with my current setup as I found the HDMI input with my jumper settings to be superior to its other spdif and aes inputs.

Maybe the new DSP works wonders but I am just more interested in how a master 7 with the new modules would sound. My relationship with the 1704 has run its course I think. I wouldn't mind getting a Monarchy NM24 again if I could snag one for <$500 though.

You can look at my signature and tell I'm a AGD fan despite visiting this forum everyday . I had forgotten all about Shangling before reading the last few post despite the fact that the Shangling A300 was my first "audiophile" speaker amp.

 

Interesting, because Yggdrasil usb is terribad. I use offboards with both, AES to Yggdrasil, i2s with M7.

Before DSP7 update, I did most of my listening with Yggdrasil. After DSP7 update, it really closes the gap (at least for me).
Now I still think Yggdrasil is better overall, but I think the gap is narrow.

 

And some other "facts" I know about the current audio-gd line of products:

1. The typical parallel JFET cascode output buffers used in their mid range DAC/AMP above (the buffers in their top Master line also has CCS) need 8 finely matched transistors per channel. On their mid range NFB-1AMP, just the output buffers need 24 finely matched transistors. I learn from their DIY forum that one have to buy over 100 transistors for matching if DIY. In comparison, the Ragnarok only uses 1 pair of power transistors per channel (total 8) because "it was impossible to match"... Hmm...

2. Typical audio-gd mid-range preamp/headphone amp uses relay+transistors for their 100 steps volume control. How much does Bottlehead charge for their stepped attenuators? Hmm....

3. Typical audio-gd mid-range preamp/headphone amp can do single to balanced signal conversion with its CAST circuits with minimal distortion. How much does Eddie Current charge for a pair of single to balanced input signal conversion transformers? Hmm...

4. The lowly $305 audio-gd NFB-11 uses relays to switch between input signals and preamp/headphone amp mode. Some other company claims they can't even include a preamp/headphone amp switch. Hmm...

 

I think you forgot to factor in differences in wages and part costs, if you can't brute force your way to a competitive product you have to be smart.

 

I would also suggest you to replace the 4 OPA2134 opamps in the M7 with OPA2140 on SOIC-DIP adaptors. The improvement is in the same magnitude of the DSPV7 upgrade.

 

I was thinking rednet and mutec, but I guess those don't do i2s, huh. I have a singxer SU-1, probably not better/worse than OR5, so you're probs right there isn't any i2s products better. I also agree stock jumper settings sounds best, with one exception, the PLL (this is what controls reclocking). If you didn't feel that shorting the PLL pin made a difference, I would have question about the OR5. At least for me, shorting PLL brought an enormous change, less syrup, more detail, more air.

At the end of the day I still think my Yggdrasil edges out M7, but the difference between the two is what I disagree with. My personal take is it is narrow, and the M7 is a stone throw away. In that vain tho, they have very different sound signatures (even after the dsp update). It's hard to directly compare in this sense.

I really think the biggest qualm (or meme) of "syrupy and warm" is gone now tho. I completely agree before dsp, m7 was gooey/warm, not that best air, only thing it really had going for it was it added weight to the sound, and had good resolution. Now with dsp it's clearer, blacker background, way more airy. I wouldn't call it the same dac, it's almost like it's from a different manufacturer after that update.

 

After a few seconds of searching diyaudio, I found a post that stated that back in 2002, when it was in full production and anyone could buy one, a PCM1704 K grade was $39. Therefore it seems more likely that a K grade chip in 2016 cost AGD $75, more than said chip cost $1.88 at any point in time IMO. Thus I don't believe he is lying about prices.

 

Not sure, it doesn't seem to be doing Smeagol any good- is it safe?

 

Just for reference https://web.archive.org/web/20070824210523/http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/dac/dac9.htm

$1000 bucks. I remember visiting this page and thinking that I would never spend that much on a dac. I saw it today and thought "bargain".

 

Sure...low risk. I'm curious. NFB-1AMP, though, and/or NFB-28.