Balanced to single-ended converter (XLR to RCA / BAL to SE)

Has anyone ever experimented or looked into using better transformers than Cinemag for balanced -> SE conversation? @purr1n recently said that even the CMLI-600/600C omits musical information coming from the DAC.

I'd love to find a better transformer that did not omit anything and was true to the source, or at least more true.

I don't know enough about transformers to really research this, but maybe Audio Note makes a transformer that could be used for this? @Donald North says they are the best in the world and uses them in all his amps.

 

You want something like the Audio Note TRANS-410 or TRANS-420
but with 600R input and 600R output instead of 150R / 150R.

 

Yes meanwhile everything known to man has been tried in the pro world and the standards are good opamp buffers, THAT IC buffers, and transformers (Lundahl, Jensen, Cinemag are the cleanest generally). They all have a sound but are fairly clean.

State of the art in poisoning Chinese children.

 

State of the art in poisoning Chinese children.
[/QUOTE]
At least he has a job and doesn't have eyes glued to a screen

 

What in the royal f?!Hope that was a typo or that you are high as a kite.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on which would be more true to the source between Audio Note and Lundahl?

I think it would be fun to make a super transparent converter. All this gear and then to have the transformers omitting stuff is sad.

 

If it was speaker OPTs, AN might have been the simple answer. But for line level iron, Lundahl makes some good stuff with Cobalt Amorphous core is what I hear. But then, there is a reason some builders pay the extra premium for the AN.

 

It might be simpler and cheaper to get a Kara? I’d be interested if more pyrates have ears on this and compare it to a converter for simple XLR to RCA conversions.

With regards to omission, converters will take something out. But for the Cinemags, it’s the commission that I enjoy. There’s a sweetness in the music with them. I’m wondering if AN or Lundahl adds similar similar sweetness to the sound.

 

there is no such thing as a perfectly transparent component in audio. Everything has an ability to alter the signal. Sometimes that is very little, as in inaudible, sometimes it is a lot, as in easily audible. and everything in between. All the gray area.

Here are some links you might find useful for isolators that use Lundahl and Jensen transformers. Any isolator may be used to convert balanced to single ended. See post #1 in this thread.

https://www.glensound.co.uk/product-details/gs-et02/
https://www.lundahltransformers.com/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/1584_x.pdf
https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pi-2xx/
https://www.radialeng.com/product/twin-iso

 

I built the converter with WE111c transformers. I prefer using them with the LIM over SE. I haven’t compared the LIM with other transformers but with Gungnir A2, I liked them more than the Cinemag 15K or Jensen 600ohm.

I don’t know how helpful this is though. They’re hard to find or very expensive now. For reference I paid $175 for the pair shipped 10 years ago.

 

Adding some impressions re: my profile post. Short and sweet:

• both Jensen and Cinemag better Kara converting XLR to SE out of Yggdrasil MIB
• Jensen has a bit of tizzy-ness, itchy feeling, but soundstage does this kinda weird "wrap around" 3D thing that is interesting, but not convincing
• Cinemag CMLI-600/C is just so much clearer, bass definition is kind of shocking, in comparison to the Jensen. Soundstage it just laid out in widescreen format; no weirdness like the Jensens
• Kara just sounds flat and compressed in comparison to both
• Aside: I hadn't played with the Cinemags for a hot minute, so this little comparo has me rethinking Kara's utility in my system... kind of frustrating cause it's not the easiest to implement in a speaker set up

 

Sounds like I should get Cinemags to try. FWIW I found that the Jensens are stupidly sensitive to the cables used on the output. Super short star-quads seemed to work best. That wraparound 3D effect is what I like about them though, so YMMV. I’ve also noticed that bass definition takes a hit.

I’d be surprised if the 15kohm nominal Cinemags aren’t also at least a bit sensitive to cables. Play with what you’ve got on hand to see if it changes anything. I’m using super short Canare cables from WBC.

 

Cable capacitance is probably what you’re hearing. The following is straight from Cinemag:

RCA cable length after two (Two) CMLI-600/600C

Q:
Can you tell me the max RCA cable length after the CMLI-600/600C before I start loosing sound quality in this chain?

Yggdrasil DAC -> 2 CMLI-600/600C -> 1 amplifier

A:
The acceptable length depends upon the total capacitance of the cable. For this application, I would keep it to less than 1000pF. Cables are rated at capacitance per foot.

Q: What about the CMLI-15/15B?

A: I would keep cable length to under 1 meter. Even shorter is better. This is to keep the total capacitance at a minimum. Low capacitance cable is good to have. Place the transformer at the input of the device that is being driven. This is because of the high impedance.


FWIW Audio Envy interconnects are the lowest capacitance I’ve found

 

Yup, exactly. Basically the inductance of the transformer and the capacitance of the cable form a second order low pass filter with consequent phase shift as well. Too much and it just sounds off, but I found that having too little was not desirable to my ear either. It’s a deliberate coloration, but one I like in the Modius -> Pietus setup.

 

Yes i heard the same on my Lundahl box, cables matter. Tried several cables and different plugs. It all seems to have an effect. Tried some Sommer Carbokab which is pretty good but i think i like the cheaper The Spirit better which is higher capacitance. Also tried some old solid core spc van den Hul cable which i did not care for. Probably due to the silver plating which i usually find objectionable.

Ordered some solid core copper Furutech to play with next. Length wise i just keep it as short as possible since i build the cables to my needs anyway.

 

In my case I’m using some PartsConnexion/DHLabs BL-Ag solid silver twisted pair interconnects with either Vampire silver XLRs or ETI silver RCAs. The RCAs (with floating shield) are about 8” long, but I’ve never sat down and measured L/C/R.

 

This.

Ive fallen back to simply minimizing capacitance in cables for the time being. Too many other things change in my system to worry about tuning each configuration further by swapping cables.

Is there a known, clear winner in the price-per-foot or price-per-cable contest for low-capacitance? Blue Jeans Cable introduced their LC-2 cable recently, capacitance < 11 pF/ft, double-shielded and nicely flexible. I'm using it now with no complaints. It's not listed on their rawcable sister site yet but I'd expect the cost-per-foot to be under $1.80.

 

Agreed, just listen but don't go too overboard and drive yourself crazy.