Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Jan 22, 2019.
I guess I didn't know what I was talking about and got schooled. Good for me. I know better now.
You see - this is why I shouldn't do nice things
For the record, @ColtMrFire has been very careful with my 3F; we discussed SE in / out, and while I was pretty sure SE input was fine, I asked him to double-check with Doug, which he did.
@ColtMrFire for the above, I humbly and sincerely apologize for my unfair tone and criticisms, for what was all in all a well written review and captured many of the great details of a great amp.
after a long day of non-fun IRL and then so much Rando noise here, i failed to stop and treat you like a valued member and for that I am sorry as well.
my apology extends to the rest of SBAF, as there are numerous posts, clarifications and checks that went into hooking an SE CD player up to the 3F. yet didn't mean to imply that a BAL source was mandatory for the 3F!
just that- with the DACs (Yggdrasil A2 and Gugnir Multibit A2) I've been using to 3F, the BAL out was clearly the best option and never owning a DAC (or source) where SE outs were better than it's BAL, necessitating SE to BAL cables.
news to me and thanks to Marv and others for correcting.
still predicting that once a good DAC is inserted into the chain, the Onkyo CD player won't seem like the best source.
again, sorry for stirring the hornets nest and logging off to awaken to a mess.
future late night postings will stay in Draft form until some time for clarity has passed.
As you guys hug it out, please keep @Elnrik's diagram in mind:
I liked @jexby post mainly for the notion that @ColtMrFire conclusions in the comparison to the T3 using HD600 are not really valid. I agree with jexby but for different reasons.
I really liked everything in the review up until the comparison part. I’m bothered by the sense that someone would quickly read Colt’s review and conclude that T3 is even in the same league as the 3F. I think all who have heard both amps can agree on this. I don’t agree with jexby’s assertion that the Senns are not worthy or that the CDP wasn’t a reasonable source.
I think jexby was upset that someone with not a lot of experience was publishing a conclusion like he did.
Currently, there are too many caveats inherent in ColtMrFire’s conclusions.
I don’t have any skin in this game, however, I heard the DHSA-3F via Utopia and Borealis this past weekend (CDP—>Yggdrasil) and I can easily hear the excellence of this amp.
I also don’t get the tube-SS comparison that Colt was alluding to as if the T3 is a uber tube amp. The 3F is tonally similar to Af or other high quality full tube amps; I think that is why some are rightfully gravitating towards the 3F.
I don’t know that particulars about the loaner, however, I do think that the review should have been held until Colt heard different DACs and headphones more compatible with the 3F. I find it is better to hold your cards until you are ready to enter the game. I also think it is always good to pay attention and research what the experienced members say before drawing large conclusions.
I truly hope Colt updates his review after hearing what the 3F is truly capable of.
@jexby thanks for reaching out and I understand it was a rough one. No worries.
For the record, I never said my T3 was better. I said I preferred it. I pretty clearly laid out the differences in technicalities based on what I was hearing. And what I was hearing was limited by the source, which was not up to Gungnir Multibit levels. I thought I was pretty clear about that, but maybe not.
To be clear, the reason I posted the review was that there was no guarantee I would hear it with the Gungnir Multibit, as sonething may come up and I would be stuck with the linites sources I had. And I could always do a follow up if and when I got to hear it with the Gungnir Multibit. And I was honest with what source I was using. To use another Star Trek reference, I felt what I did to be totally logical.
Since there were already reviews from people with superior sources, I felt comfortable that the word was already out on what the amp could do hooked up to TOTL stuff. I mean the information is already out there.
I don't know man, I feel pretty justified in what I did and don't feel I should apologize for it. If people don't agree with it, there's not much I can do.
a list of such DACs would be good to compile/know.
(not in this thread)
I will, but to be honest, even if and when I hear it with the Gungnir Multibit, it will be meet conditions. And those are not ideal for critically evaluating gear.
That's another reason I did not wait in posting my review.
@ColtMrFire , thank you for your impressions on the 3F with the HD600. It makes for a very helpful data point for anyone considering this amp.
DACs don't make that much of a difference.
Craig uses all sorts of mediocre and shitty CDPs, yet is still able to discern better OPTs from lesser ones.
A warmer darker Wolfson based Onkyo (I'm thinking if it sounded anything at all like the AMB Gamma 2) would have been a good tonal match for for the amorphous core 3F and HD600.
The HD600 is resolving as hell and scales like mad with top notch amplification. Just lacks bass extension. Mid-bass quality is slightly better than HD6XX/HD650. From mids on up, it resolves plankton as good or better than TOTL headphones.
Late to the party, but this is the illustrated sex-ed book you guys are looking for:
@ColtMrFire spelled out exactly what components were used in the comparison. By doing so, he's laid out seed for all possible doubt and critique. I don't think it's fair we take advantage of this and ask for more. Heck, I've gotten away with less. Is it because I am "more respected"? FWIW @ColtMrFire is top 1% of posters here. That's just my opinion. I read his impressions and get a lot out of them.
If we start placing onerous requirements (having a handy collection of uber components and sundry accessories lying around) on people who write reviews (where review conditions are already spelled out and some alternative components tried), then we will eventually get NO reviews and NO impressions.
I truly hope that @ColtMrFire will post impressions again because I sure wouldn't. He did every thing that SBAF asks us to do: detailed associated components (so we ourselves can triangulate) and told us about the sound and his personal preferences without BS. The onus falls on the reader to triangulate, not asking (it almost comes off as demanding) that the reviewer obtain better gear BEFORE posting the review. This is a forum, it's supposed to be interactive.
I didn't get that sense. What I got was that the 3F was more technically proficient in every way, but that he preferred the less technically proficient but tubier sound of the T3.
Ban me not the site. will take one for the team because it was my sloppy and accusing tone that started the dumpster fire.
I’m in this “dickwad” camp too. I apologize @ColtMrFire and @purr1n and anyone else who may have taken offense or was harmed by the temporary shutdown. I’m not advocating buying expensive gear and having certain conditions, just maybe trying some other headphones that are known to work well with this specific amp.
The HD600 works well with the 3F. It's just a damn good amp that works with any headphone that is resolving and isn't a power hungry planar. FWIW, Craig uses the HD600 to listen to his amps during design. The HD600 is more than good enough to tell us if an amp is good or not. In fact, I'd argue that its a better instrument to assess macro- dynamics, micro-dynamics, plankton, and headstage than 85% of headphones over $1500. It's also the fastest Sennheiser, being slightly faster than the HD800 (all known mods) and stock HD650. I mention this because I feel the 3F is one of those amps where we want to maximize strengths rather than mitigate weaknesses in the chain.
Doug's suggestion that the DSHA3 (not F) may have better Zout characteristics for the HD600 is just that, a suggestion. Some people like the Sennheisers with 0-ohm Zout, some 120-ohms Zout, others 20-ohms Zout.
@ColtMrFire Good write up. How does bass compare between the T3 and 3F?
For what it's worth here, I also should not have opened my fat mouth. I'm possibly one of the least qualified people to say anything regarding impressions anyhow.
Sorry about the noise. Lesson learned.
Holy shit, I hope SBAF doesn't turn into HF. Now that place will say "OMG your impressions suck because you didn't use a $1000 cable" or some shit like that.
However, I'm always hopeful when people apologize. Man it up is important in my world.
HF is more " This headphone will pair well with that amp because it sounds great!". And that's it for analysis. Sure what went on earlier here was a bit extreme, but I'd rather take what happened here to a normal thread on HF all day, any day.
I gave @jexby a nod to his post not because I agree but because I felt some constructive criticism is needed because of this:
My neck twitches when I see sounds like a tube amp not because it may not be true but because it's so generic in this context it's useless, more info is needed, tube amps don't sound like anything and I feel a critical data point is missing to better understand how the DHA3F sounds.
As a general note, it sounds like a DHT/hybrid/OTL/45/300B/2A3/PX4/EL34/211/AD1/10Y PP/Parafeed/C3G/Kronzilla etc. or has qualities of X type of tube sound I've heard in Y amp. You might had a stash of Moth, Vaic and Tecktron amps or the T3 is the only tube amp you heard, I don't know but if I did that would make me appreciate your post more as I'd be able to interpret your impressions from a specific viewpoint.
Separate names with a comma.