GEAR Upgrade mods. because all audio gear vibrate and produce negative resonance

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by richard51, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    i already have sorbothane duro 70 directly under the feet of my amplifier.... The granite plate with sorb. in between isolate it completely....i post this photo because that was the same 2 granite plates with sorb. i put under my speakers .... the improvement is not only clarity but naturalness of timbre..

    by the way the best results are always duro 70 1/4 inches in audio with a load to compress it where it is possible like with my speakers...

    i put sorb. between granite plate because it is way more stable than just 4 pieces under the gear or speakers and the sorb under the plate is for isolation... the sorb. on top and directly under the speakers and around the 2 membrane drivers in the speakers, it is for the absorption of the internal resonance of the speakers... I can assure you that my mission speakers sound way more clear with a 3-d holographic image now...Without sorb. all is blurred and more 2 d .......By the way i have put sorbothane on ALL piece of my gear headphone included...... the results are low cost, reversible, and totally extraordinary... the conclusion of my experimentation is ALL PIECE OF AUDIO GEAR PRODUCE INDESIRABLE RESONANCE ... sorb. is one of the best and less costlier way to improve that...
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Well, I might give sorb a try. At least perhaps on the feet of my speakers. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  3. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    if you try remember to put some load , 70 duro is the most rigid sorb. , but it is the best duro for absorbing internal resonance...If your speakers are too light in weight the results will not be so remarkable...the mission are light weight speakers and i put a heavy load on top of them, i determine the load by listening the effect....for my speakers around 35 pounds... o_O
     
  4. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    The granite/sorb sandwich essentially create an isolation platform, and with the feet under the speaker this makes the whole thing a second order damping system.

    The iso-acoustics stands also have a slightly different approach. While they do absorb, they also allow for equal transverse motion. Basically it's admitting that yes the speakers will vibrate, but let's control the vibration so that the speaker axis remains unchanged
     
  5. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    Exactly, but the sorb. is a synthetic material that also absorb some vibrations and transform them into heat with great rapidity, the materials do not just transfer the vibration to damp ( in equal transverse motion ) like the stand...The problem is not only the problem of damping direct vibration, but essentially and mostly the many resonances induced by the reverberation of many vibrations together created and amplified by the complex internal topology of the enclosure of speakers, amp, headphone etc..

    The problem with sorb. is that it is not one second ready solution,(buy it and put it under your gear) you must learn basics to apply it rightly. It is not complicated, one of the rule discovered by experimenting is the right duro for audio : 70 duro, 1/4 inches mostly...or less, like 1/8 inches, if the load under it is more light... Compression of the sorb. is a necessary factor to considerate and a very important one if possible to compress for optimal results...but in a headphone many pieces of sorb. duro 70 are only glued to the enclosure and the results are very impressive...But under my speakers the variation of the load made some audible difference...

    You cannot have optimal results if you buy any duro and put it under your gear...You must listen and adjust...But duro 70 is for me and some other people the better for use in audio,we have try all other duro...But if you put duro 70 pieces under a few pounds amp the result will not be optimal , because this is too much light on it...For my lighter gear: battery charger, stax amp. energizer, i put some load on top of them to compress it with great success...I cannot now go without that...

    Anecdote:
    One morning a piece of sorb, was accidentally displaced under the feet of my dac, and after 30 minutes of insatisfaction in the listening session, i investigated and discovered this fact, i remedy it and the sound was back to his optimum..

    .Samething occured for my power conditioner, the heavy load on it displaced 2 pieces of sorb. under his feet, and same scenario, i was insatisfied by my listening, i discovered the fact, replace the sorb. and the sound was back to his optimum...This is experience...

    All my piece of gear are sorbothanized, hence it is easy to detect an anormal vibration intruding with a destructive effect on the positive resonance that constitute the normal musical timbre of instrument from my speakers or headphone ...These negative resonance intrude caused by the echoing vibration reverberating from all the complex topology of the electronics parts and the enclosure itself...Micro effects on the sound added with a negative final listening results, if not damped and absorbed, transformed into heat, hence eliminated from the final result, sorbothane is for that...

    «Sorbothane is a proprietary, visco-elastic polymer. Sorbothane® is a thermoset, polyether-based, polyurethane material. In addition to being visco-elastic, Sorbothane® also has a very high damping coefficient. Sorbothane® combines shock absorption, good memory, vibration isolation and vibration damping characteristics. While many materials exhibit one of these characteristics, Sorbothane® combines all of them in a stable material with a long fatigue life. Sorbothane® has a low creep rate compared to other polymers (rubber, neoprene, silicone, etc.)

    Sorbothane® has a superior damping coefficient, over a very wide temperature range, compared to any other polymer. Sorbothane’s operating temperature range is -20° to +160° Fahrenheit (-29° to 72° Celsius). Unlike fluid-based shock absorbers or foam products, Sorbothane® absorbs shocks efficiently for millions of cycles. Sorbothane® eliminates the need for metal springs to return the system to its equilibrium position after absorbing a shock...» user sorb. guide
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  6. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    sorry not been around. recently had surgery and still recovering a bit and pretty much stuck sitting around house for couple more weeks... i find no reason to use any form of anti-vibration with amps unless you're pounding frequencies between 20-50hz at unspeakable rock concert spl's which is reason why lot of pro manufactures uses some weird messy anti-vibrational goo on the caps and some other parts inside and of course unless you throw your amps around you're not gonna need it and i wouldn't worry bout it. turntables are only thing i know sensitive to vibrations from the surroundings.

    i just don't know what you're asking though. if looking for speaker mods or looking for an upgrade for 1k range from first comments i read...i don't know. don't know if wanting to stop vibrations from speaker through the whole room... just basic cinder blocks will help with that or i use to use heavy 90lb cider slabs i jacked from a construction site one day but, never use them anymore since i moved. i never used those feet mention above but, at one point was thinking bout it cause they work very well with noisy driers and washing machines so, was gonna use them at one point for my bass bins and subwoofers.

    feet and stands will only help so much. when it comes to moderate to high spl's of bass and sub-bass it's mostly room acoustic faults and flaws so it's natural unless taken care of through effective bass trapping and standing wave trapping. if build-up is not annoying you then i wouldn't worry bout it too much. if your speakers can only reach 60hz then it's basically your room reinforcing the rest below and natural room build-up is flattening the response which could be one reason you find no need for a subwoofer. there is lot of information below 40hz with good mount of music nowadays. i listen to all types personally and you be surprise how much information there is below 30hz content. if into full-range 88-key piano or organs or 6-string bass your gonna need a speaker at least flat and low distortion at 25-27hz but, if it's important to you or not. i personally too am fine with speakers that start to roll-off at 40hz lot of times since lately i haven't been listening much music or been in the mood lately or cared for last extra couple of octaves so i haven't been using my subs lately..but, you can tell though with right material.

    i just don't know what asking though. don't know if curious if anything better out there compared what you paid or just looking for speaker improvement suggestions overall...
     
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  7. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I think @richard51 is making a statement about Sorbothane improving performance due to vibration absorption.

    I have no doubts it works. I just don't think the main problem with my speakers is vibration. I think I have a lot more problems due to the shape, arrangement and composition of my bedroom. I've decided I'm not going to sound proof or treat my bedroom... because it's gotta function as a bedroom first and foremost.

    But some folks may want to monkey around with this Sorbothane stuff.
     
  8. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    Blu Tack, endorsed by John Aktinson.
    http://www.stereophile.com/features/806/index.html#FJT6moL28VCbrDik.97

    They're pretty cheap and easily obtainable. I have three dots stuck to my overnight sensations and they act as feet on my stands. I can't really attest to any SQ improvements but for about $8, why not?
     
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  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I'm so getting Blu Tack and comparing distortion numbers... My furniture around may still resonate a bit though... Might have to Blu Tack them as well.

    Awesome!
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I going to put the new desktop speakers I'm making on cinder blocks or bricks on top of my desk to spite all of you.
     
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  11. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    Add some garden gnomes to your desk for effect.
     
  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Blu Tack + Lego blocks = Everything is Awesome.

    BTW Emmet > Garden Gnomes.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Oh shit, I forgot that I have enough spare Lego bricks to build cool stands.
     
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  14. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    You gotta commit deeper... set those cabinets/baffles into wet concrete forms.
     
  15. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    Not going to lie, I actually already use Blu Tack with my speaker stands. The feet were uneven and sorbothane made my 45 lbs each speakers precarious up there so I ripped off the stock feet and used Blu Tack. Been using it for years for random ass stuff with my speakers for years.
     
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  16. Wilson

    Wilson Socially Anxious Volleyball

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    @richard51 - thank you for sharing your experiences and impressions.
     
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  17. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    PRIMO in this article they do not mention the duro of the sorbothane used by german acoustics for insert into in his feet , the sorb. are only "insert" in the feet hence do not play like plain sorb. but is constrain in his action by some other material, SECUNDO the sorbothane duro 70 i use for that in some case need some load to be very effective TERTIO the property of sorbothane i describe in my precedent post show why blutak is no contender for damping when sorb. is rightly applied, sorb TRANSFORM VIBRATION INTO HEAT not blutak ....NO STAND can compete with the right application of sorb, for a simple reason : sorb. transform vibration into heat.... Plain and simple....
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  18. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    you must try 70 duro sorb 1/8 inches SHEET with a load on top of your speakers...Dont buy feet, the make some gear instable , buy a sheet of sorb . It will be better than blutak...

    My Stands are 2 granite plates with sorb in between to isolate the speakers from the desk , + 5 pieces of 70 duro sorb sheet under the speakers to damp the internal resonance, with 4 granite bricks on top of the speakers on a granite plate where i put some other pîeces of sorb. (near 40 pounds) and foremost around each the tweeter and woofer 12 pieces of sorb duro 70 1/4 inches self glued ... The final result is this good speakers of mine a WAY BETTER, no comparison with the original nude version...I hear now the membrane of the driver not the negative internal resonance...Like they say inb this article : «Studies by William Stevens in the mid-1970s showed that, with some speakers, the acoustic output of the enclosure could be almost as much as that from the drive-units »
    Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/features/806/index.html#oKfR4qqqD1ljWFlw.99
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  19. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    In my experience all internal topology of any electrical apparatus vibrate affecting with negative resonance the sound....I had apply sorbothane in each link in my gear chain with great improvement, from the power conditioner, battery charger, dac, amp, energizer to the speakers and headphone....

    All advice i have read about any products in all forum is in the end linked to how much money will you pay for a good sound, it seems the more you pay the better it is, and there is some truth in that also a onehundred dollars amp. does not rival often a onethousand one :D....And the analysis review of each piece of gear is also linked to the personal history of each reviewer....

    HENCE THE more USEFUL THREAD i stumble into in these years were advice for sorbothane and room treatment, because these remedies apply to ALL AUDIO GEAR,low cost one and TOTL one, and now because of that knowledge i have more than good audio for the low cost i have paid ...i will say it for new people in the field of audio, buy used if possible, (my 200 $ Sansui was TOTL of 1975) know that no piece of gear at any price will give you automatically, only because you pay for, his full potential, because all piece of gear vibrate and create internally negative resonance, and all linked piece of gear added negative resonance to the chain...The only solution i had experiment with success is sorbothane duro 70, at low cost, reversible... BUT you must read and experiment yourself to rightly apply it...

    final note: My 3 headphones are greatly transform with right application of sorb. lambda stax and SR-5 gold and my HE-400, all sounded now way better, and love the 3 but my preference is with the he 400 grill mods+sorbothane, that i almost sold before trying these 2 mods...
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  20. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    I change the title of this thread, because i dont want to speak only about Stands for speakers, but i am interested in the report of your OWN experience mods. not only sorbothane mods... With any piece of gear ANY mods.
     

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