GEAR Upgrade mods. because all audio gear vibrate and produce negative resonance

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by richard51, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. spwath

    spwath Collegiate hijinks master

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    My stands are made of 3 peices of wood haphazardley screwed together, with felt to not scratch my speakers.
    Seems to work, and was free, used materials on hand.
    No, that is not an illusion because of the camera angle, yes, the "legs" tilt inward because they are that shoddy.
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I'm surprised the audiophile industry hasn't developed tuneable damping devices to attach to various different enclosures. Market different stick-on doohickeys for varying wooden or metal enclosures, optimized for different resonant frequencies. Market it with a downloadable app that's no more than a pitch detector to make people knock on their devices and record the sounds and have the app tell them all the best damping products to buy, yadda yadda.
     
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  3. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    thanks , very good idea, and congratulations SPWATH for your beautiful practical stands ...
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The only thing I would add is that different methods will affect the sound differently. Isolation, such as the method you suggested with the Sorbothane effectively converting vibrations to heat is one. Other methods involve floating, mass loading, coupling to another object, or a combination thereof.

    Many of vinyl guys here like to couple their turntables to a large block of wood. The wood serves to dampen extraneous vibrations and has a minor resonance play, distributing / changing the nature of the vibrations. Such a large of chunk wood also converts some of the vibrations to heat, although much less effectively, and in a different way from Sorobothane. I've seen other vinyl guys use an air cushion, resting their turntables on an inner tube, effectively a air spring. The VPI table I have has plinth made from a sandwich of steel, aluminum, Sorbothane and MDF. Other guys like to float their gear, especially with speakers and amps. One cheap way to do this is with easter egg holders and marbles. This effectively becomes a low frequency spring in the horizontal X (left right) and Y (front back) plane and rotational Z (up down) plane while also mass coupling to the floor. Dynamat Extreme is a combination of mass loading and Sorbothane, with the gooey material converting vibrations to heat.

    Each approach sounds different and there is no right or wrong.

    Oh, there's plenty of audiophile damping gizmos at audiophool prices.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  5. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    i got your point and i am interested in learning about anybody own experience in these mods.... but one thing is sure sorb. can be apply in ALL my gear with great audible results at low cost , and seems to me one of the most easy and efficient method, but when that is said i am interested also by other method, non only for speakers but for any gear...For example i bought a power conditioner, some many months ago, i put sorbothane under it and on top of it with some load and the results were very audible for the best...
     
  6. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    You're creating a floating floor which is cool. For the rest of us, we might not need to.

    When the speaker is heavy and braced and it's coupled to a heavy stand, you only have to worry about vibration at the base layer, which in my case is a wood floor. The measured natural frequency of my wood floor is under 4Hz, wtf vibration am I trying to avoid? Newtonian physics are wonderful my friend.
     
  7. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    in my opinion if the electronics besides turntables improve from isolation then there is something wrong with them or something in my opinion. for speaker enclosures all you need is good ol fiberglass or if worried bout that stuff rockwool works as well. i understand on the vibration transfer heat function. it's very basic but, lot people make it seem harder than what it is. i only see floor resonant issues with wood flooring and and furniture. thick carpet will dampen most of it if have carpeting. any type of mass loading will help such as cinder blocks or anything semi-porous and very dense such as basic cinder and wood. can even further improve vibration transfer function by what they do for washing machines is use corkwood with thick rubber padding on the bottom. corkwood plus rubber probably cheapest and most effective way of dealing with it if worried bout vibrations from enclosure to floor coupling. air coupling only do so much preventing vibration transferring but, still end with issues from soundwaves from the room and box itself resonating that will cause some unusual vibrations through-out the environment.
     
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  8. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I used to work in a lab where humming from across the room would ruin the testing procedure. You guys are amateurs :p
     
  9. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    exactly....people does not imagine the subtleties of resonance transmission....:sail:
     
  10. spwath

    spwath Collegiate hijinks master

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    I think there is a big difference between a lab and a hi-fi system.
    I just can't imagine sorthobane helping that much. Sure, it might be good to invest in for your 1k speakers, but for cheap things, not so much. And especially amps and DACs. Can't imagine that doing anything.
    But I haven't tried it.
     
  11. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Lol. Sorbothane, Mr. Sorbothane...should have been my name...
     
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  12. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    I comunicate with this thread precisely for that : try it.... Do you think that i know that before trying and experiment? I am eager to read other's experience not only about sorbothane.... But sorbothane is the only best thing i encounter in this audio marketting reviews forums and impressions all across the internet ...i am a poor audiophile if money were not a problem, i would have put a review of my TOTL gear without reading a minute about that cheap sorbothane...why?

    But i am poor and i love sound, hence i must improve things at low cost, my experiment begins here...And my most important discovery is ALL gear vibrate , creating negative resaonnance, some gear more, other less, but the price is not a remedy for that, sorbothane is one solution, the only one i know that act to remedy that, the only one applicable to ALL my gear at once, there is other for sure, but i dont know which ... i will read your experiences...:bird:
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  13. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    you are right, its take some minimal quality audio gear to hear subtle change, but all product cheap or high-end produce vibrations, ALL, hence you will hear improvement even small with sorb added ... in my experience ...

    personal note: i go on with sorb. in the beginning only because i dont have the money to upgrade, my audio components and products did not satisfy me at this time, and i have no solution apart to costly upgrade...For exemple the he 400 in my gear chain without sorbothane was not interesting, mids recessed, sounds artificial, etc (inferior to my stax ) But with the sorb. used on all links and in the headphone, the effect on me were WOW... Now i am in love with my he 400 , this is not the best headphone for sure, with sorb+grill mod, very good headphone the same is true with my speakers and my 2 stax ....Without the sorb i would have think to the next speaker upgrade the week after purchasing them and they were good without sorb. but not enough , thanks to the sorb. and the room treatment, i dont think to upgrade now and i am not envious of billionnaire...Not that these speakers are better than all but only because they sound only, simply truly natural with 3-d imaging now...And a piano is a piano...anywhere ....when it is really here in the speakers and in the room it is there, not only in my head ...i know now that i will pay much in the future for a not so much upgrading sound and i am afraid to upgrade... I love my gear +sorbothane all across the board...all in all one thousand dollars , power conditioner, battery charger, dac, amp, speakers, he-400, all bought used (the Stax are not included )... buy used if possible...
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  14. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I didn't see this thread and I started another one for Tube Anti-Vibration/isolation Discussion. Sorry.

    I can't see spending hundreds of dollars on anti-vibration stuff. I saw the ISOAcoustics at RMAF last year. They did a side by side with the stands and without. I could hear no difference.

    That said, my MartinLogan desktop speakers came with high quality isolation pads:

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Ha ha... my Castle floorstanders used to stand on the polystyrene packing pieces from their boxes!

    (Love the look of those speakers. Once had Minnie Maggies on my dream list, but even if I had the cash, my in-an-alcove desk space would be really bad for such speakers)

    it's an area of massive audiophoolery. So massive it's beyond massive. So huge its... Oh damn, I'm trumping again!

    But there are at least two areas where it is undeniably possible, and undeniably not a 0.0001% improvement thing: turntables and tube amps. And maybe it could be argued that, really, what is being compensated for by using external isolation/support is the lack of the same in the engineering, or some design fault or component choice that made the thing microphonic in the first place.

    I am going to put sorbothane blocks under my chair so that my headphones are not affected by background seismic murmur. But seriously, the whole speaker-support thing is entirely worthy of study and experiment --- many audiophiles having never got beyond the absurd misconception that cones and spikes isolate.
     
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  16. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    thanks that is exactly my point ....:punk: But i must add that , independently of turntable or tube amp, i have experiment an audible upgrade with all piece of gear that possess an enclosure, hence produce negative resonance and microphonics....From my power conditioner to the headphone and with all in between... Suffice to say that to apply rightly sorbothane there is some experimental rules, right duro, right adhesive, right thickneess, right compression, right quantity...

    But i must say that for a price very low these upgrade amount to a totally new systewm for me, because each improvement added to the sum of all and is very audible... The reason is simple if you read about sorb. : sorb. absorb vibration and transform it to heat , destructing some negative internal resonance and not only isolating...All other products dont do that, it is simple if one read the litterature about sorb.....
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  17. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I didn't get on at the beginning of the thread, having just noticed it. Might catch up with the rest. Might be talking out of turn unless or until I do, but I can't help noticing an regular audiophile theme there: something is happening and it must be negative.

    But whatever, what you are doing is low cost, just like it didn't cost much, years ago, to try green ink on CD edges. the worst that could have happened was ending up feeling a bit silly, and that is the story of my life anyway.

    I'm not going to go hydrogenaudio on you and dispute your experience. Setting up blind testing for this sort of thing (re-arranging a stack etc) is maybe not possible anyway. Just... I'd be sceptical. I'd be sceptical even if I got good results. That's just me. Hello Mr Sorbothane, I'm Mr Sceptical! :D :cool:

    But hey, it's low cost. Go for it!
     
  18. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    :)Dear m. skeptical, i passed already this blind test three times by accident, 3 times some misplace sorbothane feets of mine, one time under the power conditioner, one time under the battery charger, one time under my dac, accidentally and without my knowing slip off under the feet of these gear , and before i know the next morning with fresh ears, listening my music, unconsciously i feel bad and not totally satisfied like i has been before, i frantically verified all the system and SURPRISE! 2 squares each time were off and no more absorb the resonance plaguing my gear, it was instant revelation that is REAL, not in my head fellow! Now for sure the sorbothane square are more large under the feet and better compressed, it is way less possible to have this problem...

    I only advocate sorbothane because people dont know that there is a universal problem : these vibrations, isolation, and first of all the negative resonance cause by electronics and the topology of the enclosure... Not only they dont know that their costly gear are plague by this,but when they know they pay for a less efficient solution than the sorbothane and they pay way more for less... I am the first people i know of, that use sorbothae in each and all his 10 pieces of gear, with an upgrading effect that is more than evident, without blind test necessary now...;)

    Before sorbothane i were perpetually insatisfied of what i have, reading threads , here or there, about more costly products i cannot afford...Now i know that there is better than my Stax, Mission or Hifiman, or Sansui, but i know for sure that if i want to really upgrade the cost will be extraordinary way more, and the difference way less... My system now is not the better in the world, but it makes music more organically natural than before and this is possible in the first place only with my sorbothane remedies...I dont sell sorbotrhane i only want that people read about that this reversible, low cost, and miraculous solution for me RIGHTLY applied for sure, if not rightly applied i am no responsible of the results... I try for a year now with many experiments...try yourself, and if i can help i will...
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
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  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Well, I have a set of four sorbothane feet. I guess they have been with me for well over a decade too. Also, I probably paid over the odds as they came from a hifi shop --- didn't have the internet to check out industrial equivalents back then.

    I can't say that I noticed any difference in sound. However, they have been in use, and are to this day, under stuff that is the wrong size/shape for the stuff beneath it. I can see them right now, under the front of my desk-top amp, the rear of which rests on a piece of wood at the back of the shelf.

    I can reach out and touch them. Nice squidgy, softy things. I like sorbothane too --- but not necessarily for the same reasons :punk:

    :D
     
  20. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    a note : for audio all experiment point that the duro 70 is way better than the other duro....dont waste money on another duro..... But the point is this duro is more dense and we must compress it to make it more efficient for the absorption of the internal resonance... the only place were it is impossible to compress it completely it is in my headphone, but the results are better there also than with the other duro i have try, (30, 40, 50 duro):sail:
     

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