I made a hyper-engaging headphone with HD800S drivers

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by Bill-P, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I just pulled poked a bunch of holes in the outside of the oval hybrids trying too reduce the bass. Not having as much effect as I thought. I looked at your photos and don't see any holes in yours. Did you purposely take photos of virgin pads to hide your secrets? ... LOL

    signal-2022-01-24-21-03-26-078.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  2. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    The Senn pads I ordered are designed for the HD598 (etc). The dimensions are close to the 6X0 series, maybe wider yet thinner, we’ll see how they do. The biggest plus is that they do not come with the plastic insert.

    Turns out the Umik-1 mic I already own will work for a fpc mic rig, so Ill be adding distortion and CSD measurements myself eventually. Interested to see how mods effect csd and distortion.

    I could take one of these extra Brainwavz pairs and rip off the covering materials to test @E_Schaaf ’s all-foam pad idea.

    I never shared a pic of the baffle. Here it is.:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  3. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    [​IMG]

    Hope your not doing anything for 24 hours after you install them :D
     
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  4. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Does it make sense that increasing baffle "resistance" would result in decreased efficiency? I replaced the Faraday cloth tape with larger patches of cloth attached using 2x-tape only at the edges. Haven't properly listened yet (it's time for bed) but they seem a lot quieter at the same volume setting.

    I also think I know why the holes I made in the outside of the BrainWavz hybrids didn't do much to reduce the bass. I sacrificed them to make over-lip mounts for the HD650 pads. They use memory foam, which seems effectively closed cell. Makes for great comfort, but I think it's the cause of the bloominess.
     
  5. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Yes. Air resistance = acoustic impedance.

    I see. Thats why the hybrids behaved differently. They were sealing more than the other pads due to closed foam.
     
  6. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    RE: Open source 3DP with custom driver and Grado bits. Like this:
    [​IMG]
    We can order custom drivers with grills pre-installed but it is possible to 3DP grills like this, just ask @spoony :
    [​IMG]
     
  7. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    That grill on the symphones looks like SLS or MJF, however SLA and even FDM can net decent results…
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  8. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    [​IMG]
    ^ Brainwavz Oval velour (left), Geekria HD598

    [​IMG]
    ^ Geekria (right) does come with driver front foam filter but not shown here.

    [​IMG]
    ^ fpc, its happening

    The Geekria are a little more breathable and much softer. EARS frequency response coming up.
     
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  9. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    The lip of the pads are plastic and I dont think they could wrap around the BP800 baffle.
    I havent glued down the pads or anything. The pads are currently just held in place by friction / clamp. My very thin felt adhesive driver baffle seal is sandwiched in between the pads and the driver baffle. I wonder if there is some leak which would probably mean some bass loss. Since these measurements look promising Ill probably take steps to seal certainly.

    BP800 G598.jpg
    BP800 G598 and Loki.jpg
    ^ Loki's 400Hz knob at 8'oclock

    Haven't listened to them yet.

    EDIT:
    - Difficult to write pad comparisons since I'm using EQ with both, but Ill try.
    - As soon as trying on (with eq as shown) it sounded OFF (for me). Needs more bass, less highs, less upper mids. After messing with Loki EQ by ear it sounds normal again, comparable to Brainwavz velour with EQ. Now, oddly the G598 pads are not as comfy as the Brainwavz. The foam used in Brainwavz while less compliant perhaps hugs the skull better and distributes the pressure more evenly. Anyways, going to need more a/b because after EQ the differences aren't so obvious. This may take awhile because switching pads isnt as easy as switching headphones. Hopefully fpc rig shows some evidence for one being better than the other.
    - a/b pads like this is a pita. The 4.5Hz ringing with Brainwavz velour Ive gotten accustom so I dont have much motivation for continued padrolling. Im happy already.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2022
  10. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I think this was a temporal anomaly with my hearing perception. Nothing to see here ... move along.


    So here is where I added a 2nd layer of Faraday cloth. I could probably do a few more sections, or even 2 layers total. But it's such a PITA applying the strips of 2x-sided tape that I cbf'd for now.

    baffles.jpg


    Part of my motivation for cutting open the BrainWavz pads was to use them as mounts for the HD650 pads. I had some 3M VHB tape on hand, but regular thick foamy 2x-sided tape would probably adhere to the cloth better. Here's the result. I can live with this in everyday use, and it makes removing the pads to tweak the baffles much easier than having them taped on.

    BWcondom.jpg


    With the smooshed HD650 pads, I went back to 3 closed, 2 open on the driver vents. All closed didn't have enough bass and 2 open seems to let the bass breathe a bit better, in addition to bringing up the level. A slight bass shelf at 100Hz and a subbass lift at 25Hz pretty much makes the tuning perfect for my preferences. I think I'm done (for now).


    I'm still having occasional dropouts on the right side, usually when I move my head. I've ruled out the cables and upstream, and it happens even if I swap capsules, always on the right (I already swapped out what I thought was the offending connector with a new one, no change). Can't reproduce it by jiggling the connector or the wires soldered to the drivers. All I can think of is it's the Schurter connectors as they aren't a super tight fit, and on the right side because of the positioning of my gearz. But it's supposed to be a decent brand, and they're marked "Made in Japan".


    Looking at the possiblity of using the Rean connectors, I used one of the extra capsules that Bill kindly provided to mount one at a slightly forward angle.

    POC.jpg
    This works theoretically, but the side wall flexes too easily at this location, and the threads would probably strip eventually due to the thinness of the wall and the softness of the material. One could mount it at the opposite end of the existing hole as it doesn't seem to flex as much there, and run longer leads from the driver tabs, but I think you'd eventually run into the same problem with the threads. So I'm going to leave it as is.

    *The blue/green tape marks a screw hole with stripped threads. I managed to strip this particular hole on 2 capsules, probably due to compression of the foam on the driver masking the amount of torque I was applying. I switched to a smaller screwdriver.


    I'm going to try and hand bend some grills with metal window screen material over the Chinese New Year break. Will report back later.

    Thanks again, @Bill-P :bow::sail:|\/|
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  11. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Bass is good. I think Ive gotten accustom or its just good. I switched to Emu-w and difference in bass macrodynamics was not obvious. EDIT: nvm. Just switched back to Emu and put on some bassy music and Emu just has more impact / slam / weight. The Emu is also a closed headphone so maybe reverb adds a sense of weight as well.

    I've been setting up my fpc rig with @Biodegraded 's help. Here is what I have so far. Emu-w here. wip
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
  12. paradox88

    paradox88 Rando

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    the pads have yet to leave HK or at least the post in HK reports that it's waiting to be shipped :-?

    added 3m tape single layer on top and side holes and doubled up on the bottom side

    I've compared them w/o equalization to lcd2 classic closed/opened, hifiman sundara and shure srh1540 equalized and not equalized. i use EasyEffects on Ubuntu with the built in autoEQ with profiles from oratory1990 mostly that should aim for Harman tuning BUT no test rig yet; still working on it but work and shipping kind of suck atm :D

    Here is autoEQ in case ur interested https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

    they sound like a way more clear average of any of the headphones above... so they sound somewhere between lcd2 closed with eq averaged with lcd2 closed w/o eq and same for the rest of the cans... the strange part is that they sound just like my little monitors (passive audioengine A2 powered by an infineon ma12070 amp chip that is fed by a fiio k5 pro)... the fiio feeds the cans and monitors simultaneously and going from cans to speakers is 100% seamless... it's kind of surreal as the cans add detail to everything while the monitors add a seance of position (op in games i guess)

    also I've used https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
    for tests and comparisons and most listening done on spotify :)
    ...

    then i grabbed some flacs i have from witcher 3 :D and other games that are kind enough to throw top shelf audio files my way and wow, sure they don't have the slam of the lcd2 closed but it slams everywhere :D
    more so than every other can i have in the top end that seams to be mostly eaten up by spotify encoding i guess; super balanced and easy to listen too! can't w8 for the leather pads.

    ps: tested my hearing and above 17k...17.5k i can't hear that well :( age i guess but the top end missing in spotify seams to be starting from like 9-10k... not much tho.

    pps: they are missing a mod mic magnet to be the daily drivers due to meetings and the shipping issue comes back to bite me again :D

    ppps: gonna upload pix when i figure out the max image size a post can contain :D
     
  13. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    @E_Schaaf ’s idea to go more porous front wave. Here are two pads with outer layer material removed. The Brainwavz (top) uses a very dense open foam. The Geekria (below) use a light-medium density open foam. Measurements coming up.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    BP800 open foam Geekria.jpg
    BP800 open foam BW.jpg
    [​IMG]
    BP800 opBW 2felt.jpg
    [​IMG]
    BP800 ofx2 v1.jpg
    BP800 ofx2 v2.jpg

    edit: There are many variables. This was just a quick fun experiment. I am certain Ev could make the BP800 sing with open foam pads.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 2, 2022
  15. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    BP800 velour VS hybrid angled.jpg
    ^ Top curves are Loki+ (using same settings), bottom curves are no eq. These are Brainwavz hybrid angled oval pads VS Brainwavz velour pads (simply labeled BP800 since that's what Ive been using normally). Thought I would give the hybrid angles a chance... There is a little more bass bloom (deal breaker) and a little more bass impact. Slightly wider stage and a little sibilant. Maybe could polish up with some more eq, but nah - I'm done here. Im going to shop for some more Senn style pads.
     
  16. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Got the stainless steel window screen mesh from my friend and poked little bloody holes in my hands cutting a piece off the roll before I realized I should use gloves. Got one cut and bent to shape and it more or less fits. But I have no idea how to attach it, other than to hotgluegun it around the perimiter.

    278288.jpg
    278289.jpg
    278290.jpg
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    This is all really cool to see. @Bill-P must be evil laughing at all of the shenanigans.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  19. paradox88

    paradox88 Rando

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    did not figure it out, it the image is eve 500k... i can't attach it so imgur to the rescue

    https://imgur.com/a/ZEg8rbf
     
  20. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    BP800 Sealed vs Unsealed vents
    [​IMG]
    BP800 sealed vs unsealed.jpg
    BP800 sealed 100db.jpg
    BP800 UNsealed 100db.jpg
    I'm still learning how to use fpc and make useful graphs. The squigglies in distortion can vary quite a bit between measurements (im guessing noise floor related). What I've looked for are trends and post the distortion graph most average / representative of the trend. There is a clear trend of increased distortion with unsealed vents. No surprises.

    FYI, I took these measurements in multiple trials. Resetting REW between measurements, recalibrating between measurements, AND trying the opposite by not resetting or recalibrating between Sealed vs Unsealed measurements. Just to be safer of human errors etc. Trends were still apparent. Only thing I didn't mess with was positioning of headphones, they were left undisturbed between measurements.

    One thing I like about the fpc is that I made it approximately the same width as my head, whereas EARS is much narrower. Having the right width means I have measurements that more approximate the correct clamp and earpad squish. Frequency response measurements are more accurate on EARS though because the compensation curve is more dialed-in.
     

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