JAR6XX (and JAR600) Review and Measurements (and Wormsign)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Feb 14, 2023.

?

Based on the measurements and subjective impressions, which one would you choose?

Poll closed May 14, 2023.
  1. JAR600

    46.8%
  2. JAR6XX

    29.8%
  3. Welp! I can't decide

    14.9%
  4. Both, I'm rich

    8.5%
  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    This is the JAR6XX. Read all about this headphone at the Jupiter Audio Research website. The idea behind the JAR6XX is similar to that of the various mass loading and filter adjustment modifications to the HD6XX/650 discussed here. Except JAR takes it to the next level. @CEE TEE sent these over to me to compare to the JAR600, which I happen to use as my daily driver (on most days where I want something neutral sounding).

    DSCF0308.JPG

    Here are some measurements of the JAR6XX, comparing to JAR600

    JAR6XX
    Frequency Response
    CYAN = left, RED = right
    upload_2023-2-14_18-39-54.png

    JAR6XX vs JAR600
    Frequency Response
    CYAN = left, RED = right, GRY = JAR600
    upload_2023-2-14_18-44-0.png

    As we can see, @ext1 at Jupiter Audio Research tunes both headphones to a very similar target. The JAR600 is just a bit peaker at 5kH and 8kHz. However, this does not explain everything. From the frequency response, we'd expect these two headphones to sound almost exactly the same. They do not! There are people on the Internets that would tell that you frequency response tells you 90% of what something is going to sound like. This is NOT true. While frequency response is a major determinant of the sound, other factors like distortion and transient response (both successively more difficult to measure and correlate) play just as much a factor if not more!

    What if I told you that of these two headphones, the JAR600 was the more even and neutral sounding, and that the JAR6XX was the more energetic and V-shaped (thicker and sharper) headphone. We would almost guess the opposite from the above given the slightly higher peaks in the treble of the JAR600!

    FWIW, for all its imperfections, I consider the JAR600 to be the most perceptively neutral open dynamic headphone on the planet. This is why I have it around.

    JAR6XX vs HD650
    Frequency Response
    CYAN = left, RED = right GRY = HD650 (stock)
    upload_2023-2-14_18-46-29.png

    The stock HD650 has slightly more bass and treble emphasis emphasis with no dip at 2.5kHz.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2023
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The JAR6XX is the fun more energetic brother of the JAR600. When comparing them, take the frequency response graphs and throw them away. The JAR6XX thumps, it lays down the beats, it can be both thicc and cutting at the same time, like a pregnant Rihanna at the Super Bowl halftime show. The JAR600 sounds almost tame and pedestrian. It is very slightly more strident (owning to the peaker 7-8kHz), but strangely it also has more "body" to the presentation. Again, frequency response really ain't telling us the whole story here. Let's look at distortion.

    So what gives? Let's take a look at distortion. These are taken at over 100db, but I've found that distortion at these levels does correlate to what we hear at more normal listening values.

    JAR6XX
    Distortion (absolute levels) at > 100db SPL
    upload_2023-2-14_19-7-43.png
    Ignore 200Hz spike, it's a measurement artifact

    JAR600
    Distortion (absolute levels) at > 100db SPL
    upload_2023-2-14_19-10-50.png
    Ignore 200Hz spike, it's a measurement artifact

    Basically the above distortion measurements may explain what's going on. The JAR600 may have sounded to have more body because of slightly higher second and third order distortion. The JAR650 lays down the beats and is thicc because of its much higher third order in the lows way up to the upper bass around 250Hz or so. That third order bump screams HD6XX/HD650. It explains a big part of the sound and why many people here who are not afraid to EQ push the mid and upper bass on the HD6XX/HD650.
     
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  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    CSDs...

    JAR6XX L
    CSD
    upload_2023-2-14_19-22-46.png

    JAR6XX R
    CSD
    upload_2023-2-14_19-20-49.png

    JAR600 one channel for comparison
    upload_2023-2-14_19-22-15.png
     
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  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    These are new. Slightly different from CSD. It's burst decay there the Z-axis isn't time, but cycles. I wanted to see if we could gather something from Jupiter Audio Research's mass loading approach.

    HD650 Stock
    Burst Decay
    upload_2023-2-14_19-40-25.png

    JAR6XX
    Burst Decay
    upload_2023-2-14_19-33-24.png

    I know there are many people who've sworn that mass loading the plasticky Sennheisers does wonders, i.e. tightens things up, blacker background, more discernible "plankton", etc. Is this measurement indicative of such? The stock HD650 does exhibit more "worm sign" or at least bigger worms in these burst decays.

    JAR600
    Burst Decay
    upload_2023-2-14_19-41-16.png

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2023
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Oh, here's an old file for the HD600 bone stock. I tend to redo measurements fresh when I can to reduce human, setup, and other environmental variables including product refreshes from the manufacturer, but at least we got something.

    HD600 bone stock
    Burst Decay
    upload_2023-2-14_19-45-48.png

    It will be interesting if the correlation we see with mass loading plasticky headphones holds up with more data. Science and exploring new things is fun! Measurement dogma is for morons who think they are smart, especially those who utterly failed at running Microsoft's consumer division.
     
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  6. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    The question is: do the two JAR600 v1s sound the same?
     
  7. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Also, this thread tells me I need both JAR600 and a JAR650/6XX
     
  8. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    Ah, so which one do you like more? Sounds like both have their place?
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The one you sent me is physically different from mine. The part that pressed into the outside of the cups is thicker by a millimeter or so. Also the middle part with the foam that presses in, it's not pressed in as much. As a result, the overall tone balance is brighter than the one measured here.

    If I got a place in the UK there would I want to live? London or Bristol? Maybe get a place in both cities? Personally I prefer Bristol or Manchester or Liverpool over a place in or on the outskirts of London. Don't get me wrong as I love London, high energy, lots of people. Really, I'd rather be in the other cities, and take the train down on occasion to visit London. Therefore it's JAR600 if I had to choose. It's down to preference. The Russian oligarchs loved London before the ban hammer hit. Both have their place.
     
  10. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Thanks. I suspect I actually would prefer the one I have even though most will want the less bright version.

    now here’s the question: how hard would it be for someone to produce a LOT of JAR6XXs? I think these should be way more popular than they are after a few months of having one in-house.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    What's the material? 3D printed stuff? I'd mass produce them via CBC or see if injection molding is possible.

    P.S. I put up a poll, for fun.
     
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  12. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Interesting to know they are tuned close, but not shocking I don't think - but interested in finding out more about what is behind the physics. I thought they both sounded neutral also, but a different presentation. I went with the 650b - out the other 3 on the 2 loaner tours. It brought the presentation more towards HD600 and possibly even HD800. I'm surprised it was the one I liked. Made the least sense on paper. I thought I was going JAR600OG - and if I heard it by itself, yeah I'd love it too. There isn't a bad one in the JAR family.
     
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  13. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    @purr1n love it, but when are you gonna try a B/v2 modded JAR?
     
  14. goodvibes

    goodvibes Facebook Friend

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    Looking at spectral decay, it would bias me towards the JAR600 but I'm a prat guy so an actual listen may favor the 6xx as I find the stock 600 on the polite side of things. Is there more apparent/less porous rear damping on the 6xx?
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Whenever they get into my hands. Been busy lately. Had to play mom for a while because my wife had to tend toward her dad because her stepmom got a nasty fungal infection (just like how I did four and a half years ago - it took me four years to recover). Except her stepmom got it bad where the infection disseminated into her spinal column and up into her brain. She's also got big holes in her lungs too and getting a nasty antifungal treatment that is toxic to her kidneys. In the meantime, my department is down to 7 or 8 people from 23 because of corporate profits and all that lazy (I really don't mind, it comes with capitalism, which is better than communism / enforced poverty for all), so not enough hours in the day.

    You got it! Even though the stock 600 is tiny bit brighter up top, it's actually more polite sounding. The foam material appears to be different.

    DSCF0310.JPG
     
  16. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    @purr1n i’d “like” the top of your message pertaining to my quote, but nothing in it sounds good at all. I’m terribly sorry for everything you’re going thru right now, hope things get much better soon with your family, and I’m sorry about your work dept headcount troubles secondarily… audio means f**k all when compared with the health and happiness of your family,
     
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  17. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Burst decay 6XX KISS? If you have time, no problem if dont. Thanks

    Effects of different foam density on driver vent has been observed by @Biodegraded. I think the biggest variable of people's experience with 6XX KISS mod is from how well the driver vent foam is (re)applied... Too loose (flapping loose) vs too dense (squished into driver vent). See Bio's experience with Custom Cans mod for an idea of the possible effects.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2023
  18. Mdkaler

    Mdkaler Friend

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    Does JAR6xx sound largely the same as JAR650?
     
  19. JK47

    JK47 Friend

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    Anyone here good at herding cats? Almost time to make an updated HD6X0 modded compendium, with JAR, Custom Cans, and KISS.

    Thank you in advance for your sacrifice.
     
  20. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Yeah, my measurements of 6XX with the Custom Cans mod indicated lower 3rd order in the bass with less or less dense rear-plug foam. Which, bass SPL aside (bass amplitude increases as rear plugging decreases), I thought sounded better - but I prefer a leaner more textured bass over a thicc character, which might not be everybody else's preference:
    I'm not sure what the extra mass provided by the copper ring did for the bass, but I did measure slightly higher 3rd order in the mids & highs without it (ie in stock config). However, that measurement was done the previous day when the noise floor was slightly higher than it was during the modded measurements, so that might account for the difference (and all my measurements are noisy as hell anyway). I didn't detect anything significant in the CSDs and I haven't been doing tone bursts.

    @purr1n I like your new burst decay displays. Would showing the attack part in the same way be interesting?
     

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