Native DSD makes DSD 512 version of the Sound Liaison DXD original, upsampling???

Discussion in 'Music and Recordings' started by Peter Apperup, May 17, 2019.

  1. Peter Apperup

    Peter Apperup Rando

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    Help me understand this;
    Native DSD has just released a sampler with 5 tracks in DSD 512.
    It says; "These higher bit rate DSD 512 tracks are all pure DSD created. They are not up samplings, for there are no PCM or DXD conversions involved in their production."... ?
    I happen to own the last track of the sampler, the sublime live recording of The Feenbrothers playing Brubeck,
    and I know that the original recording has been done in DXD 352. That's what it says on the https://www.soundliaison.com/ site where the DXD version is still on special offer.
    But how can it not be an upsampling? Or is it OK because DSD is a different format from DXD?
    [​IMG] https://www.soundliaison.com/index.php/453-new-the-feen-brothers-one-mic-recording
    [​IMG]

    https://nativedsdpresents.nativedsd.com/albums/NDSD013-nativedsd-presents-5-tracks-in-dsd-512
     
  2. Lyer25

    Lyer25 Too sensitive for SBAF

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    I stopped giving a bother about anything other than PCM but hope this is some help (DXD is basically super high-rez PCM, 352.8kHz, while I barely trust the alleged benefits of 192kHz/24bit):

    https://dsd-guide.com/faq/what-dxd-it-dsd#.XN9hb6RS9PY
    https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/

    Also from nativeDSD themselves: http://help.nativedsd.com/high-resolution-dsd-listening/additional-reading/dxd-resolution-explained

    They're either lying, which does happen surprisingly enough, or they're being disingenuous. If the original recording was done in PCM (which is what DXD is) then there's no way short of their having had an entirely separate recording system right next to it operating simultaneously to capture in DSD.

    Brain fart: or it's an entirely new performance by the same act?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  3. David De Lucena

    David De Lucena Science Nut

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    Don’t have hard disk space to those 512 dsd tracks. Life is too short
     
  4. Peter Apperup

    Peter Apperup Rando

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    It's definitely the same version.
    Here is what Native DSD says; " These higher bit rate DSD 512 tracks are all pure DSD created. They are not up samplings, for there are no PCM or DXD conversions involved in their production. They are re-modulations of the original DSD 256 encoding modulation that produced the DSD 256 releases. The sonic advantage to these new Stereo DSD 512 releases, as with all higher DSD bit rate releases, is the wider frequency passband prior to the onset of modulation noise. This results in the listener’s DAC using gentler and more phase linear filters for playback of the music."
     
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  5. Lyer25

    Lyer25 Too sensitive for SBAF

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    Not upsamplings but remodulations. Gotcha. I'm guessing the argument is that the process is nondestructive or immune to the quantization errors of PCM upsampling? I used to know much too much about DSD for my liking, but have forgotten most of it and had to read up on it again.

    I will say that I'm generally not a fan of (PCM) interpolation because it just seems to haze everything up and that well-done Redbook is far preferable to the same recording upsampled to 768.4kHz/48-bit (Lord I hope this doesn't actually exist).

    The way I understand remodulation is that it's analogous to capturing a photo in RAW and then doing a finer job editing it in Lightroom? If so then I think it's bull because you simply cannot get any more data out of a photo than was captured by your sensor to begin with, and if it's different then that's a VSCO filter at work; you could maybe use interpolation to turn your 12MP image into a 48MP one, but I doubt it'd look nearly as good as a native 48MP photo, or even a 24MP one when viewed at the same distance with the same quality, unless they gimped the original DSD256 and are just now allowing its full, DSD512 glory to come through.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019 at 4:52 AM
  6. Baten

    Baten Almost "Made"

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    As you say it's likely just bull, DSD512 is pretty ridiculous as a redistributable format.
     
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  7. Lyer25

    Lyer25 Too sensitive for SBAF

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    Always tend to give people benefit of the doubt, but you have no idea how much I've had to tamp down my knee-jerk response of "DSD is bull!" the last little while, haha. I've not got excellent ears or very well-developed listening skills, and I'm aware there are others who have both these, so eh.

    Also edited my last post to make a point I forgot to originally.
     
  8. Peter Apperup

    Peter Apperup Rando

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    btw.....there is only a few days left of the special offer on the album at the Sound Liaison site.https://www.soundliaison.com/
    The DXD recording sounds incredible. It has been done with only one very special stereo microphone so it's completely phase coherent. It is one of the best sounding albums that I own;
     
  9. Peter Apperup

    Peter Apperup Rando

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    The 5 tracks from Native DSD seems to be on the new Astell & Kern portable player in DSD512 format.
    And no wonder they are very exited about the product:)

     

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