Phono Cartridges

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by JK47, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Following @powermatic : assuming compliance of 1.5-2x the 5Hz quoted (see these posts) and looking at the resonance-evaluator link he gave and at this graph, I think the 103r would be just fine.

    Edit: The Denon carts reportedly do very well in combination with Rega arms, which are within a gram or so of the mass you gave for yours.

    Edit 2: Brainfart, compliance is not in Hz; 5 micrometer per millinewton or somesuch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  2. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    Thanks for setting me straight on the Denon. It is frustrating when the specs aren't standardized!
     
  3. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    I found that if you need to add mass to an arm - its possible by using some BluTack/dynamat (for example) on the arm. Here's a picture of what I did:
    https://imgur.com/MwPT0Cd
    https://imgur.com/h5Qo1ls

    I dont know how much it changed in terms of resonant frequency (rebalancing the arm using the counterweight showed me a 3.5g increase in weight, so technically it should have worked perfectly) but I found an immediate change in clarity in the lower registers and havent taken it off the arm since it went on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  4. bxh

    bxh Friend

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    Thank you for posting this.

    In comparing this to Fremers files, this is easily the winner and should be for good reason. The percussion is the most realistic out of the three. Nothing gets lost in the complicated percussion sections. Discussing this with @Stapsy I thought I initially liked the Hana SL file the best upon first listening to the two, but we both kind of decided it was mostly attributed it to the tone being better suited to the HD800, which I've been listening to these three needledrops on this evening. The deal breaker here for me will likely come when I sit down to listen to the three on my speakers.

    After listening to yours, the Hana sounds dead slow, and the Quintet isn't far off from being nearly as fast. I'd say the Hana sounds about 25% slower while the Quintet is only about 10-15% though the top end is a little much for the HD800, snares are almost too in your face and agro, but the mid and lower range are spot on and not muddied at all like the Hana. If each cart could be compared to a snare, the Zyx is a COB Supraphonic, the Quintet is an aluminum Supraphonic, while the Hana is a soft copper snare.

    I will update with more impressions tomorrow. I will listen on my 2ch set up and I'll be demoing a Quintet Black paired with my Transcription for a good comparison. I'll bring some familiar LPs that I've been comparing today on my digital rig as a baseline.
     
  5. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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  6. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    I'm looking at possible sub-$1,000 mc cartridge upgrades for my pro-ject perspeX. I'm currently running the Sumiko Evo III that came bundled with it, mounted on the 9cc Evolution tonearm. I know I like Ortofon from past experience, so I'm looking at the Quintet series. I've also heard great things about the Zu-Denon dl-103 carts. My preferences are a slightly warm sound, with an extended top end. Any recommendations would be welcome.
     
  7. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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    I'd look at the Dynavector DV-20x2 (own, really like) or the Hana thats getting a lot of press lately (haven't heard). Both of these come in a high or low output so you can match up with whatever phono pre you're using. Your tonearm has a fairly low effective mass, so be sure to use the Vinyl Engine resonance calculator to help match things up.

    https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=8&submit=Submit

    I'm a big fan of the DL-103r, and in fact own a Zu version, but I bought it years ago and paid A LOT less than what they are asking now! In fact I was pretty shocked at the price when I just looked on their site! I heartily recommend the Denon to almost anyone to try out, but I would buy one off ebay, and then later buy an aluminum (or wood) body for it, mod it yourself, and save 5 or 6 hundred bucks for 99.9% of the performance. The Denon is great, but you can do much better for 1k. Don't forget the low output-.25mv.-so be sure your phono stage has enough gain, or buy an SUT.
     
  8. sfoclt

    sfoclt Friend

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    I agree with you. I’d suggest sending one’s own Denon in to Zu (if you don’t want to repot yourself) instead of buying from them. I wanted to compare a couple different 103R’s so sent cartridges to a couple of places. The 103R I sent to Zu I bought off eBay (matched channels) for ~$250 and Zu charged $218. Sean said it measured at their “Prime” level, which they charged $1629 for at the time. Just as a data point for folks.
     
  9. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    That was helpful! Thanks dude. And yeah, I have a Lounge Copla SUT to push mc carts. . 25mv is really low!
     
  10. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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    I didn't even think of sending your own cart to Zu, that's a good idea. $1629 for a 103r w/stock stylus and cantelever is insanity.
     
  11. neogeosnk

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  12. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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  13. Daveheart

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    I looked around and couldn't even find the replacement stylus for less.
     
  14. Gallic Dweller

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    I don't think anyone has mentioned Audio Technica. In the past they have had a reputation for being a bit bright but their more expensive cartridges are up there with way more expensive ones.

    My first plunge into MCs was after years of cautious observation - the 33EV, nothing to criticise at all from top to bottom, some say slighty dark, certainly not bright at all. Plays all kinds of music so well. Emotion PRAT, tracks like a train, no surface noise. I bought mine for $399 when the £/US$ rate was @ $1.70, at that price a steal. It's fair to say that it graphically justifies the move from MM to MC.

    However I am thinking of changing to something else - the ART 9. as good as the 33EV is - well, read the user reviews. It can be bought from a reputable German seller @ $860 to anyone outside the EU. Like I say, read the user reviews.
     
  15. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    The AT440ML has been talked about plenty of times on this thread. Although it is worth mentioning that this cart is no longer produced and that Audio-Technica now recommends the VM540ML as a substitute. It has all the same specs and I believe it's cheaper too.
     
  16. recstar24

    recstar24 Friend

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    Missed out on that fantastic deal, but ended up going with the KAB Concorde pro s with 40 fritz geiger stylus, as it's essentially setup for a 1200.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    Heads up if you guys haven't read it yet... Shure is ceasing production of phono carts this summer.

    I picked up 4 spare M44-7 for my DJ gigs. Should last at least through the next 4 years or so at which time I'm hoping somebody I can find a good alternative or at least a good replacement stylus as I don't like Ortofon's DJ line. (haven't tried the brand new ones though; may be better)

    I wish they would have brought the V15 back but I guess all the know how is long gone... what a bummer.
     
  18. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I expect a run on DJ cartrdiges considering that Stanton is also being wound down according to the Gibson backruptcy annoucement yesterday.
     
  19. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    The Nagaoka praise is over 9000 here:

    I love my MP110 but the setup probably just worked better with the Nag, I dont believe someone coming out and saying the Ortofon Bronze kept getting "destroyed" by everything on the table. I would have loved to see the Hana EL/EH thrown in there as well though
     
  20. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    I really like the HiVinyl guy but I feel he often gets duped by the "brighter is better" or "more bass is better" (ex: his love for the Mani) hifi fallacy.

    Mostly I hear the 200 has way more treble (is this correct? I don't know!) and is much faster (can't argue there) and there are some big staging differences with the 200 sounding like it has a better stage. The 200 also sounds like it might piss you off on non audiophile recordings with a bit of midrange push and that possibly hyped treble... The Bronze, despite being weaker technically, sounds more "natural" to me.

    So I ripped the audio to confirm my ears and sure enough 200 is up about 3dB past 10K and stays there (vs the Bronze) and there is a huge channel balance difference between the two carts. Which one is reproducing whats on the disc better without adding too much color? This is what I want to know.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018

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