Post your turntable setup...can't get enough of those spinners!

The TNT can be a little too warm, so your components downstream should complement, I would think. Extremely easy to live with though and I've seen quite a few out there for less than Classic 3 prices, sometimes way less.

 

@MuppetFace , I am seeing that you are being mentally pulled into many directions Not a bad thing to venture out and gather data, but not the state of mind where I would pull the trigger on any given turntable implementation. Every single table mentioned in your post sound VERY different. Amazingly, I've pretty much heard all of them extensively to form an opinion (For myself!). However, how that fits into your direction, I'm still not clear about. I'll splurge out SOME information and see if you can gather something useful out of it. You probably have an idea about most of these things, but never hurts to read more about it

1) Mass loaded and suspended designs sound very different from each other. There are bad and good implementations of each. The Kuzma XL turntable might not be a bad way to go for you as it is an upgrade on the Stabi Reference you currently use. The sound becomes much bigger, wider, even more stable and much more endless on both sides of the frequency spectrum. This is the same type of sound inherent in the Redpoint Turntables. I would suggest AGAINST a Redpoint turntable as sales service from the Designer is non existent pretty much. He is very very hard to get a hold off. Nothing really goes wrong with the table, but the peace of mind if not there. I own a Redpoint Model D (a very special one). I've lived with a Kuzma XL4 as well in a system that I know like the back of my hand. Very very similar sounds! Mass loaded designs are really fantastic, but are particularly sensitive to setup (where you place them, vibration control etc.).

You can be very very happy with the new Stabi M and a 14" Kuzma 4 point. That 14" inch tonearm is one of the best things Franc Kuzma has created. I'd say it is a 15% or so improvement over the 11" regular 4 point and that is nothing to laugh at. Getting those kind of gains in a high end system is no joke...it almost never happens like that as diminishing returns kick in so heavily at this point.

Now the XLDC, adds more PRaT to the Kuzma XL design. It is a change, but not everyone is looking for that. Again, you have to tread on this territory so that you make the equipment adhere to your mental sound map. Not the other way around. Franc feels the XL DC is a definite improvement. Well, that is according to what he listens for There are people who love the XL2 (2 AC motor sound) and XL4 (4 AC motor sound) and XL DC which is the newer DC Motor design. Franc found a way to offer more variety in sound to his customer base and I applaud him for that. My favorite so far is the XL4 motor version. You might like the DC version.

2) As for VPI Turntables. In a packaged situation, the VPI Classic line is stupendous. The best of which are the Classic 3 and Classic 4 tables. Identical construction, the 4 lets you use dual tonearms and is slightly larger. Changes the sound a bit (for the better), but not that much. From the new VPI crop, the Classic line is superb. The tables above it is where things get interesting. The HRX is a cost reduced version of the TNT series. Really well implemented and had a long run before the HRX platform was stabilized. Cost of super high quality Acrylic sky rocketed and price points couldn't be maintained. VPI cut the acrylic is thinner slabs, put in an aluminum subchassis and bolted the three piece design together. Nice visual touch with the "X" shape and it was a hit! Superb turntable, but a little on the cooler side compared to the TNT series. The TNT series are priced all over the map as there are so many versions of them! I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VI "Hot Rod". The concept was always modular with single motors, flywheels, dual motor PLUS flywheel, various platters, Acrylic, Lead/Cork/Acrylic sandwiches and a bunch of others. There was also a SUPER PLATTER that was very bass heavy and people loved (probably due to more modern, leaner, solid state systems). I had a ball upgrading my TNT VI "Hot Rod" and got a sound signature that I absolutely loved. Probably the best sound signature I have ever heard from a VPI Turntable in the history of VPI as a company!

The TNT 6 "Hot Rod" basically had the tonearm mounted directly into the plinth. That is what made it a "Hot Rod" compared to the arm board versions that are not as rigid, but offer flexibility to mount other arms. The TNT sound is more like master tape, but from a warmer, richer perspective. I added more PRaT to mine by switching to the HRX Rim Drive and the newer Classic Aluminum Platter. It was the best sound I have heard from a VPI in ANY shape (Avenger, Magnetic Drive, Direct Drive Classic), everything. Then I added another arm wand for flexibility and THEN ended up having VPI make me a custom arm board to make it DUAL Tonearm compatible. The 12" Metal tonearms in both cases. Not the newer crappy 3D arms. This table is competitive with anything out there right now sonically. It is a very large table, takes up space in your life and music room. So maybe not for everybody, but solidly engineered through and through. I love the table....

By the way, the idea for the Magnetic Drive came to Harry at VPI when he saw the EAR Discmaster at Harry Pearsons house many years back. He was taken aback by the performance and always had it in his mind to do it one day. He did finally, but didn't implement it well. The EAR Discmaster has total isolation between the cogged belt driven subchassis that houses the magnets and the platter that houses magnets as well in the bottom. A good 1/2" gap! The VPI mag drive has a shaft connecting BOTH subplatter and platter which isn't the same thing. But it is good marketing and way to upsell a high end model. The EAR Discmaster (which I also own), uses swiss angular ring bearings for the main platter. It is a stunning performer and my best sounding table I feel. Completes my all EAR system in a magical way.

3) The Airforce 1, 2 and 3 are fantastic tables from the Micro Seiki designer. He has dedicated his life to designing turntables. I feel his best work of life was with the Micro Seiki SZ-1, SX-8000 MKII, SX-5000 MKII series of turntables. Then the CD's came along and it made no sense to continue. The build quality of those turntables is far beyond what is achieved today with the Airforce 1, Zero, 2 and 3. But the new ones have the continuation of his vision. Air bearing everything....platter, plinth, bearing, vacuum suction. My feeling so far is that these tables have to be matched into a system again. There is a LOT of suspension and dampening going on. You have to take advantage of it WHILE sculpting the sound with appropriate tonearms, cartridges, cables and phono. It is not a system of one, but many moving parts. Regardless, these are great turntables designed by a great designer. I had been planning to possibly buy the new Airforce Zero actually. Just to experience in my own setup. However, I am having much more fun now going into idler drives and Ortofon SPU's So I'm having fun in this vintage direction now....your journey is different and just as important to experience.

Choose wisely and enrich your life your own way.

From what I have been thinking even while writing this LOOOOOONG post (apologies for that), I think you should stay with the Kuzma line and possibly upgrade to the 14" tonearm. I feel you will gain a lot there and satisfy the itch you are feeling for a solid upgrade.

Cheers,
Gaurav

@Marvey , funny how you caught on so quickly to the unique personality of the TNT 6 I have! To me, it is the best sounding VPI I have heard in my life. The modularity let me tune it....that is a huge plus for the VPI of yesteryear.

Beast of a table:

 

Cool to read the background for the Magnetic drive. Maybe the next iteration will be better.

So the one question every parent is confronted with. Of all the tables that have gone (and are still with you) in your life, which is the one you couldn't live with the most?

 

Excellent question! Easy answer for me. The best turntable I have and simply cannot ever live without is the EAR Discmaster. It has stability like Direct Drives, thrust like idler drives and smooth ease like belt drives without disadvantages of each drive system. It has ZERO motor noise through the cartridge and record surface.

It is the Crowning Jewel of my analog life and system.

 

@shaizada That table is so beautiful, it could win on looks alone. I remember you posting there are only five in the USA?

 

I feel it is artistry and engineering melted into a perfect mix...elegantly made turntable. There are 5 in the USA, that is correct.

 

@MuppetFace @Marvey I absolutely concur with your concerns about the Avenger Reference, and listening to it at a dealer's place, I wasn't too taken with it. With that said, the Titan I listened to at the HK AV Show was a substantial step up. From talking to Matt Weisfield (A real gent), they've supposedly built a more substantial magnet array for the magnetic drive compared to the Avenger line up, and it is using the dual-motor rim drive in conjunction with it.

 

Along the line of idler wheels, i wonder if anyone had any thoughts on these? http://www.idler-wheel-drive.com/models-pricing/

 

Thank you for that, @MuppetFace Let me go down that rabbithole, then, and see what I find. I grew up listening to Lencos, so there is definitely a strong nostalgic appeal to me.

 

I have two idler wheel Turntables going into service soon. One is a oil bearing Steve Dobbins Garrard 301 in cream color. The second is a Woodsong Audio Garrard 301 grease bearing in hammertone finish.

I will post pictures and experiences down the line. Not my pictures, but this is what they look like:

Steve Dobbins 301:


Woodsong 301, Grease Bearing:









Thanks to stereophile for the images above! You can read the review here. Art Dudley is one of the better quality reviewers out there I feel.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-163#cszIMELTBAdELOKW.97

 

Man, all your pics are getting me all antsy to get an idler. Maybe i should just look for a 6 that will do rim drive. Will that end up sounding similar, @shaizada ?

 

@Wfojas , the rim drive brings additional PRaT to the vpi line. It was a very nice upgrade and gets you closer to the benefits of idler's, but within the VPI soundscape. I like it!

The TNT 6 expressed the best sound I have heard from VPI, no doubt about that. Wish it was still around for others to experience as well.

 

I just added a working Woodsong Audio Garrard 301, Hammertone grease bearing finally! It's singing with the Ikeda 407 tonearm and Ortofon SPU.

@struggles , you made my day

 

Gorgeous, an amazing piece, can't wait to hear it!