Schiit Vidar Impression Thread - UPDATED WITH REVIEW (CHECK FIRST POST)

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by Rotijon, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  2. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Did not want to highjack the thread. Just had some questions that got answered already.

    It seems to me that big woofers are still relatively high impedance load that need enough voltage and current to drive them properly.
     
  3. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Interesting discussion as is often the case here. From my perspective (read to the best of my hearing ability), while Vidar is certainly going to be limited in momentary output power by how much current the PSU can deliver like any amp, in long term listening mono into 4 ohms the ability to dissipate heat still seems to be the main consideration here. I've gotten really good at finding that line where it will maintain a sustainable peak temperature through hours of listening. It only takes an extra click or two on Freya's attenuator to reach the tipping point where it no longer dissipates the heat it is making and starts a long slow climb until it shuts down. I attached some temperature sensors to the heat sinks, and it's interesting to watch how responsive the thermal output is. When listening to an album with a lot of dynamic range you can see the temps starts falling when one is listening to quiet passages, and then start climbing again when the loud parts begin. Some albums have quite a few "degrees" of dynamic range.

    Anyway, even though they may not be officially rated for this use case, I LOVE my Vidars, and my Maggies. They are not going anywhere.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Considering the high impedance peak of mentioned drivers it seems high voltage is needed to scale that to get enough dB at resonant freq which is efficient region to begin with. Not a lot current would be needed, but enough.(Originally was replying to @BenjaminBores linked article. )

    Naim outputs @1 Ohm: 11.4V and 11.4A
    @4 Ohm: 26.68V and 6.67A
    @8 Ohm: 28.8V and 3.6A

    Added
    Vidar @4 Ohm: 28.1V and 7.1A
    @8 Ohm: 28.3V and 3.5A
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  5. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    This was my general understanding also, though I was unaware of the ties between resonant frequency and impedance. Thanks

    I have nothing to compare it too yet but my impression is that the Vidar has no problem handling the ATC SCM11s whatsoever, including EQing a little more bass extension. Which given their already low sensitivity is no small feat. I keep equating the little brute to the U.S.S. Defiant.
     
  6. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    Saga & Vidar Driving Planars
    I jury-rigged the LCD-2C and Abyss 1266 up to my Saga/Vidar to see what all the fuss was about. Well, the fuss is legit. More so than I expected, but with some significant trade offs.

    Gungnir Multibit A1 -> DEQ2496 (bypassed) -> Saga w/ Stock NOS -> Vidar

    Due to the cabling situation I was able to compare the LCD-2C only with the SE out of the Mjolnir 2, though a number of times. But with the Abyss it was Mjolnir 2 BAL, Saga/Vidar, then Mjolnir 2 BAL and done.

    Overall there was an immediate and powerful sense of them coming alive. Slam and overall dynamism really improved notably. There was also an improvement in clarity and tactility, and an expansion of staging with a sense of it feeling more filled out. The LCD-2 no longer sounded nearly so laid back and soft, and seemed to benefit more so than the Abyss. They really did lap up that speaker amp juice.

    Two-channel amplifiers could really be the way to go for planars. Could be because I didn’t find the Saga/Vidar to be a viable route. The presentation was raw, and in comparison to the Mjolnir 2 suffered a reduction in overall fidelity, micro-dynamics, and general nuance. The power hum/buzzing sound was pretty loud on the LCD-2C, but if you’re listening with good volume you may not notice. The Abyss faired better here as it’s much less sensitive, and the volume pot is easily maxed with these. The biggest problem I had was ear discomfort bordering on pain, from either headphone. I can only guess that there was some inaudible high frequency noise coming through to cause this.

    So listening to planars from big boy amps certainly has merit, in principle. But you’ll need something better to make it worthwhile. Though it could be that different tubes may improve matters, and power quality/conditioning may solve the ear pain issue.

    Even with this setup they still couldn’t keep up with the Utopia, and that was also having fudged the fenestrated Utopia pads onto the Abyss to mimic the CC ones. Which does improve performance there, though with trade offs to slam and such.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  7. tranq

    tranq Acquaintance

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    Does anyone know how long Vidar stays in Class A before it shifts to B?

    Wondering how low volume usage of Vidar will compare to Aegir.

    I'm currently using Vidar in my office to power some Elac Debut B6 2.0. It's overkill for sure, but I'm putting in a 60 hr week and it's worlds better than the class D Dayton I normally drive the elacs with. Modi 3 Loki Magni 3 powering Vidar. Seriously awesome setup for desktop listening.
     
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  8. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Is any part of that amp actually Class A? I don't get the impression it works at all like Pass Labs XA series.
     
  9. tranq

    tranq Acquaintance

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    You really comparing an all class A amp to a class A/B amp at 20 percent of the price (or less). Not sure if you're asking a legitimate question or being a snarky Richard.

    All I know is Vidar is class A/B, many folks here have mentioned that it's high bias. I'm a bit of a noob and don't know if that means a half watt, 1 ,3, 5 etc before moving to class B operation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  10. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    He wasn’t being snarky. I recall Jason has stated before that Vidar is heavily biased to Class A, but I don’t recall if he said exactly how many watts typical. If it’s been said, someone is bound to find it, but I’m too lazy to look for you. ;)

    Maybe if he’s around he’ll enlighten us. Or maybe he’s got better things to do as well (like launch Aegir!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  11. JohnnyCanuck

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    If memory serves, Aegir is supposed to put out 10 Watts in class A.

    JC
     
  12. tranq

    tranq Acquaintance

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    Thanks, Jason kindly enlightened us on the Schiity rumors thread.

    He says Vidar is about 1/10 of Aegir, so about 1 watt.
     
  13. reedo

    reedo Rando

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    I’m considering the Vidar Saga combo but after going through this thread i do have some questions. I have Maggie MMGs in a 10’ x 11’ dedicated room. Don’t laugh, 3’ out from the wall and they sound great. Currently driving with an NAD C338 that is 50 watts and I do have a small sub just to fill in the last mile. It’s a nice night system but I know it’s running out of gas when I’m in the 84db area on up. I’m not normally a loud listener. Emphasis is on soundstage and clarity. Looking to upgrade. Is Vidar Saga right for this application? Specifically, is the Saga’s lack of gain a plus or minus in my situation? Thoughts?
     
  14. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    I can only speak to my own experience. I had a Saga/Vidar combo running my MG12s briefly. It sounded really good. I think the Saga is certainly more transparent than the Freya is. I ended up sending the Saga back and getting a Freya because as good as it sounded I don't think it was really getting everything out of the Vidar that it was capable of into the Maggies. I could turn the volume up literally to the stop and it just seemed like it should have more, and that was no longer an issue when I got the Freya. I do like to listen pretty loud though so it's really hard to say if it will meet your expectations. For a lot of people I think the Saga/Vidar would probably have been perfectly fine.

    Schiit does let you try and return it for a restocking fee (which they will waive if you buy something different IIRC), so I would suggest considering that if it a possibility.
     
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  15. Alfredo Prada

    Alfredo Prada Rando

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    At what temperature does the Vidar actually shuts down?
     
  16. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    242 Kelvin. won’t happen for you in LV so don’t worry.
     
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  17. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    According to Jason its protection kicks in at 85 C, but that is measured internally and obviously differs from the external temperature. In my experience it's around the 65-70 C range on the back fins of the heat sink, but that is going to depend on the environment ie how well it is dissipating heat.
     
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  18. wout31

    wout31 Rando

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    Hello guys (and dolls if any),

    Pictures of my Quad ESL-63 full range electrostatics and 2 Vidars to drive them.
    I think they are a very good match now the Quad's have been properly rebuild as a real electrostatic loudspeaker..
    The only problem is that the SPL of the Quad's is only 80-85 dB, so I can only drive the Vidars with Freya in tube mode.
    Passive and JFET has too low an output with some tracks that have preserved dynamics. If track/album is compressed heavily, no problem. But I prefer recordings that have some or most of the dynamics preserved.
    My setup is PC with RME card with AES output to Yggdrasil A2 Gen5 to Freya and balanced to 2 monoblock Vidar. Turntable is a Technics SP1000 with EMT 929 tone arm and Denon DL103r cartridge that leads to a Mani pre-amp. My headphone amp is a Magni-3 and for very bad mixed tracks there is Loki Mini. So as you can see I'm a 100% Schiit-head aside from the speakers..

    https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlStM9dBC8QVjtEzEKZ_wNS2kija6w
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlStM9dBC8QVjtExmMKHKsw0N4PMxw

    Jos from The Netherlands
     
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  19. BeyerMonster

    BeyerMonster Guest

    I see 1 Vidar, but wanted to double check if you were running in stereo or mono. My much maligned Onkyo receiver finally bit the bullet and I'm replacing it with a pre/pro so I need amplification for my surround speakers. Possibly a second vidar if I decide a single channel of my old Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature can't handle a Maggie tri-center wired in series.

    I imagine that for my use case a pair of Vidars is probably overkill, but it's hard to justify a ton of money on multi-channel amps of questionable specs (i.e. most seem to only have RMS ratings when driving 2 channels).
     
  20. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    I'm running two. I ran one for a while and it was adequate but I was always pushing it hard. Two is just better.
     
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