Sennheiser HD650

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Jeangenie, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Question: Is HD650 veiled with wooly bass? To try and answer that I will compare to HE500.

    [​IMG]

    ^ I did not use in that configuration with both headphones plugged in at same due to the noise. Apparently, using both at same time would effect the signal anyway.

    Answer: HD650 is not veiled or wooly. I'd say 650 is exciting and just a bit limited in bass capabilities but no where near bad. Preference for which headphone depends on the music. At this price (used), keep both as they are complimentary.

    - Tonally, 650 and 500 are more similar than different. For difference, 650 has a little more upper mids and treble presence which to me is the opposite of veiled. In those terms, 500 is veiled relatively. Upper mids put vocalists front row and treble presence adds a little extra energy and definition to many instruments. Personally, Im not sure which is more neutral but overall I prefer 500 for most music as I find vocals more often too forward in 650 but I am fan of the extra presence region and consider that 650's improvement over 500.

    - Technically, very similar except 650 bass quality struggles a bit in comparison to 500. 500's bass is a little more clear and a little harder hitting however it's not evident in all music. Most of the music I found most effected was electronic music and music with complex and dense passages that involved (kick) drum and/or bass (guitar). To be fair, 500's better bass extension could play a role so that would technically be tonally.

    On first impressions the tonal differences in 2-5kHz made it appear like HD650 was more resolving (vocals, electric guitar, snare drums, etc), but with attempts at volume matching those specific sounds I found that both headphones were equally resolving of transients, microdynamics, microdetail, and imaging.


    Preconceived notions rectified:
    - I had read of Sennheiser being "veiled" in my early days in the hobby so avoided 6X0 series. Not until I found SBAF did I give Senn a chance.
    - I assumed HE500 bass would piss all over HD650 bass but it did not. It actually took some effort to clearly observe and define what made 500 bass preferable. During ownership of these headphones I got that impression but I never took the time to compare them side by side and make notes.
    - I assumed 650 would be more resolving than 500 in mids-highs, but it's really not sorta. I would say HD650 is a little too forward in upper-mids (fake detail) and in contrast HE500 presents 2-5kHz areas a little dimly but not technically less resolving. Both could be improved with modding, padrolling, or EQ.

    - HD650 is using new pads ordered from Amazon, the new production with glossy black plastic. Silver screen, Ireland.
    - HE500 is using Dekoni hybrid pads. 4-screw.
    - Macbook > Eitr > ModiMB1(v2) > Jot2
    Round1:
    Appears that 650 is a little more resolving: microdynamics, imaging, and longer decay. The areas where I heard differences were seemingly in that 2-5kHz range. My perception could simply be amplitude related.

    HE500 has a bit of unusual wrap around head soundstage.


    Round2:
    Most all differences were volume related (frequency response). Aside from possibly bass characteristics, I could not easily differentiate after volume matching (by ear) any specific sound.

    btw Attempting to volume match stuff is time consuming and maybe not good for your ear health but it is informative. Reviewing gear is tedious and difficult, so much appreciation towards those that make the effort and share.


    Round3:
    HE500 comes out ahead on bass. The differences is that 500 bass doesn't get muddled during complex passages (e.g. bass guitar accompanied with other instruments), and 500 bass hits harder on big bass blasts (dont know the instrument used in electronic music, a computer?). Part of the difference might not just be clarity but also the greater bass extension of 500.
    HE500_vs_HD650_EARS.jpg

    Warning: I listen to music at very low volume (roughly 25-30 db lower than average listeners). This can explain why sometimes I come to different conclusions than others (beside preference).

    edit: Updated for clarity and reformatting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2023
  2. Tekker

    Tekker Facebook Friend

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    I also compared the HD650 and HE-500 side by side when I had them.

    HD650 had worn in stock pads with Mogami 2893 cable, and HE-500 had the fuzzor mod and Dekoni hybrid pads, also with Mogami 2893 cable.

    I found the mid and upper bass quantity less on the HE-500, but attack/impact was a bit stronger. Sub bass had slightly more energy on the HE-500.

    The whole midrange section, from lower to upper mids, was more forward on the HD650.

    Upper treble (10 khz+) was clearly more forward on the HE-500, and is the most obvious difference between the 2.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2023
  3. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Agreed but the difference felt small in comparison to the 2-5kHz region. And I didnt want to nitpick too much because aftermarket pads.

    I bet most HE500 users are not using stock pads (velour or leather). I tried probably around 10 pads on HE500 and the sound can change a lot. Dekoni hybrid was my preference for sound and comfort. A hybrid pad that’s sorta middle of the road. You can get much closer to 650’s sound by putting velour pads on 500. You’ll increase 2-5kHz range but will lose on bass impact and definition however bass extension remains.

    Dekoni velours for T50RP I found were pretty mild for velours. Beyer and ATH velour pads had much more extreme effects on treble (Grado spice). Funny, I didnt try HFM velour pads.
    velours.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Tekker

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    Agreed. But the HE-500 redeems it’s clarity with the upper treble, which has a good amount more energy than the HD650 (with those respective pads mentioned a post earlier)
     
  5. Eric Rosenfield

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    Anybody know where I can get replacement rear foam for the 6X0 line? I removed it from a 6XX and the foam disappeared, and I also removed it from an old 580 and it fell apart. I'd like to experiment with restoring them to stock sound. I'm willing to buy like a sheet of foam and cut it to shape, but I don't know what kind of foam to buy.
     
  6. Woland

    Woland Friend

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    If you don't have luck with this thread, try asking folks who've done the Custom Cans copper mass loading mod... It involves removing the foam.
     
  7. Eric Rosenfield

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    this is literally why I have no foam anymore lol
     
  8. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    lol.
    Try contacting Sennheiser for parts.
     
  9. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    I bet when you put the foam back in, it will change the sound…
     
  10. Biodegraded

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    On my HD6XX, the rear foams look to be the same thickness and density as the front foams. Buy another pair of genuine Senn earpads (because you'll need them sooner or later anyway - although the new ones are slightly different from the old), and use one of the front foams that comes with them.

    https://spares.s-consumer.com/en-us/catalog/sparepart/050635 but out of stock

    https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Replacement-Cushions-SENNHEISER-Headphones/dp/B002B4OKYU pricier but in stock.

    2 discs per side, 22 mm diameter. They'll be tricky to get in; poke the middle through the vent, taking care not to damage the back of the driver, and tease the edges into position with a narrow spatula or blunt toothpick.

    Or just stick with the Custom Cans mod for the improved bass texture.
     
  11. ColdsnapBry

    ColdsnapBry Almost "Made"

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    Are we talking about the rear foam that sits under the plastic spider looking thing? If so, what's the best way to get that off, replace the foam under it, then get it back on?
     
  12. Eric Rosenfield

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    Yes, that's what we're talking about. This video shows how to take it out, it's not really difficult, you use a pair of tweezers or something to poke the foam into the middle of the spider and pull it out. Putting it back in is more tricky, but the idea is you reverse the process, sticking the foam in the middle and pulling it out the sides of the spider.

     

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