Synopsis of HiFiMan HE1000 Headphone Impressions from CS

I was asked by Negura to describe the attack and leading edges of the HE1000 and HD800.

I personally find the HE1000 attack good enough but presented in a different way than the HD800. Attack is comparatively close taking Rodrigo y Gabriela's Tamacun, Orion and Stairway to Heaven as an example. My favourite track to test this aspect is Nils Lofgren's Keith Don't Go on his Unplugged album. The leading edges aren't obvious for example on the HD800/Teton, but are obvious on the HD800/445, so it is my reference point. The HE1000 does the leading edges on say 3 minutes onwards excellently, not too far away from the HD800.

However the leading edges in the treble are slightly but noticeably dulled or relaxed on the HE1000. Some might even say slightly veiled compared to the HD800. The leading edges are there and would impress you, but once you do an A-B comparison you will see they are not as crisply defined on the HD800. The difference on an A-B, I would conclude, is that the leading edges are there with ample volume and attack, but they hit the ears with a hammer-head covered with cloth whereas the HD800 hits your eardrums with a razor sharp knife.

As for the explanation for this, the HE1000 does tend to exaggerate the size of spatial images. Spatial cues are "bloated" but quite well defined compared to the laser sharp rendition on the HD800 and the "fluffier" rendition on the SR009. This brings the stage forward, especially with voices, and leading edges larger or "duller" than they should be. For this reason, the HE1000 can sound precise and clear while being forgiving of the recordings. Some may perceive this as a minus given larger sonic cues may make leading edges or bass attack more rounded rather than sharp and may bring forward the vocals on a soundstage too upfront. That's a presentational issue which may be fixed by pad modding, as I've experienced with the HE6.

 

I don't have the HE-560, but I have heard them. I kind of put them in the same basket with the HE-500: good sound, certainly great value, but there are better ones to be had. It was only when someone randomly mentioned the HE-560 on HF, the alert lights started blinking for me. I would not be very surprised if Hifiman used the HE-560 as a base for tuning/scaling-up the HE-1000 sound.

After being very surprised initially hearing the HEK (which I have openly admitted), I think it is fair to say many of us expected:
- better HE-6s, or
- a combination of HD800s and HE-6s

Fast forward a couple of weeks. The HEK are of course neither of this and what we got is: something else. Of that I am certain.

In comparison, the modded HD800 and HE-6s are also quite something else when it comes to leading edges. While these two are not even in the same sound style, they both have incisive and impactful leading edges. Combine that with a very good amp (EC) and the Yggdrasil, both of which are strong in this area and the former two start to pull away. It's not a night and day difference, but it's there. I could also understand why in another rig even with the same 3 headphones, things could look marginal or indifferent. I gave thought to this, but I don't think it's a matter of FR, because it's across all spectrum. I am also not so sure this is due to sound stage presentation, although I agree with lojay's description of it. Impulse response? Reduced amplitude attack? The pads could also play a role.

In regards to the 009s, it's a good point raised. I sold those a couple of months ago, but from memory those have almost the opposite problem: good edge precision, but less of a "hammer" hit. I'll leave that comparison to lojay.

Another topic I was quite puzzled with, hence my initial impressions question mark, was the DR. Let's imagine a scale of 1-10 where 1 is the most quiet and 10 is the loudest. They HEK seemed to scale up a lot, but something was not adding up.
In one of my early assessments I was listening to a certain operetta and I was really impressed by a high DR passage. For good reason. The explosive moment did involve a great height on the stage, which is playing right down at the HEK's strength area. This is a great example of one of their strength areas in action (track: Phantom of the Opera - Think of me). Part of this could be related to the sound stage presentation, which is very unusual: great width, big height, but not a lot of depth.

Since then I rolled a lot more tracks to assess DR, as well as other aspects comparatively. Here's an interesting example:
In one of the listening sessions, I started off with the HD800s and taking some notes. Inevitably the explosive passages interrupted me from what I was doing, like f*** yeah this rocks (it could have been Hans Zimmer). I will take a note of this track to compare headphones. I then swapped to the HE1000s and started over on the same track and taking notes. Before I realised I was alt/tabbed on some forum reading random crap. The track ended. WTF - how did I miss that?! Scroll back in the track with the HE1000s, not sure... why the fuzz didn't I take a note of the exact second. Ah yes, I thought it was obvious. Back to HD800s... explosive moment found, on new listen still impressive. Write down exact second, volume match, back to HE1000s. Aaaah OK there it is... so if I take a note, then I can find what impressed me with the HD800s. Procedure compiled (with warnings).

 

I've had those moments too. The HE1000 sounds comparatively dull to the HD800, comparatively less resolving (on the same volume level) and comparatively less precise in imaging. All of this detracts from ultimate realism, as I have noted since day 1 about the HE1000 but been unable to explain why.

We have to, however, balance the pluses with the minuses. There are moments when the HD800 is just too much. It sounds best with stuff like Phantom, Les Mis, classical, i.e. live performances where you need that extra detail, imaging and transients to bring out the realism of the venue and the massive shift in dynamics. But for most other stuff the HD800's laser precision might in fact detract from musical enjoyment.

We've got to have a jack-of-all-trades headphone, and I think the HE1000 fits the bill. I am just wondering - does the HE6 fit the bill better? Can you mod the HE1000 to make it closer to an improved HE6 rather than something else?

 

In regards to the HD800s. Even with modifications I don't see how the HEK can be a replacement for the HD800s. As opposed to many here, and some of my friends, I am actually not a huge HD800s fan. I like and respect them for what they do well, but I would not consider owning just the HD800s. That said, I enjoy them as my favourites with particular genres and recordings. Complementary headphones - hell yeah. Imo the HD800s are just not all-arounder headphones, but the HEK are.

I cannot answer the HE-6s question for myself yet:
- the HE-6s are modded while the HEK are in stock form. These are both HFM after all. =)

For me it is the big question out there. I was expecting it was going to be a walk in the park to answer this, but it's a hell of a marathon.

 

I don't get what the issue is with HE1000's bass. It's as good as I've heard bass reproduced from headphones. Maybe I just listen loud.

 

It's not about the bass. It's a "problem" or "characteristic" that pervades throughout the FR, but is more evident in the transient attack of treble / upper mids. Think the rendition of acoustic guitars. On highly resolving systems, you should be able to feel the leading edge of each pluck as a swift, incisive and sharp metallic "attack" on your eardrums, which is a very tactile and satisfying feeling. On other systems, you hear the leading edge but you do not feel it in the tactile senses. I tried to explain this by referring to the Teton/HD800 and 445/HD800 comparison - even though the Teton and HD800 is known to be one of the best HD800 setups, it is only the 445 that is able to bring out the tactility of leading edges for the HD800. The other headphone I have heard that is capable of doing this is the HE6 with the Woo WA5.

The HE1000 also has it, which is a great thing, but it is just not as exciting or incisive as the HD800 or (according to Negura) the HE6. It is not a big problem IMHO, but only a noticeable lack of transient attack incisiveness (I think that's the best word to describe it) compared to the HD800.

 

You nailed it. That's what I'm talking about. Yet, unlike electrostatics, the final impact of transients in the HE1000 hits harder and sustains longer. It does not have that fluffy feeling. On certain tracks the HE1000 is able to sustain a rumbling sensation in the lower bass and that is not heard on the SR009.

 

Yeah. They are a bit like stats but also aren't. What I said to a friend recently: the Hek don't solve any dilemmas for me so far to which headphones to sell and which to keep. They compound to it.

Lojay, with the 009s rig, I am afraid you have an even bigger dilemma... Or you can keep all.

 

to all experiences members here. i dont think i picked up some of the sonic things you guys are talking about.

i may get a chance to do a direct comparison of the HE-560 against the HD-800 and possibly the LCD-3.

any suggested test tracks that would really highlight the sonic aspects you guys are referring to? I am personally thinking that Aggressive Expansion would be a really good test track for attack speeds. thinking november rain or american pie for macrodynamics, but if someone has an even better suggestion I would love to hear it.

also, any tracks that would really specifically highlight the lcd-3's 'smoothness' would be much appreciated as well. I personally had trouble detecting that aspect in previous extensive demos.

any other widely known/popular songs that would be served as solid test tracks for enlightening on the differences in sonic strengths/character of the HD800 vs the HE-1k would be appreciated.

thanks all! can also PM me here or on head-fi. same user name.

 

I am actually doubtful you will hear what we are hearing even if you listen to the same songs. As I said a few posts ago (sorry for everything being scattered around this thread, it is after all a "stream of conscience") I never heard what amazing leading edges on say acoustic guitars sounded until I used specific high end gear, ie the WA5/HE6 combo and 445/HD800 combo. In fact the tactile and incisive nature of leading edges was not felt even in some of the best HD800 amps, the Apex Teton.

I know you do not currently have TOTL amps, or even the HD800 or HE6, so that may be limiting you because you will not know what you are missing until you hear it. So you may well think you are hearing the best treble / transient attack ever - but that doesn't mean the HE1000 is unrivalled in that regard.

 

From dglow:

I'm way behind on this thread, having only read the first few pages, so apologies if these impressions and questions sound redundant. My HE1K only arrived yesterday and I put in a first bit of listening last night. I'm doing USB > Yggdrasil > Ragnarok > cans.

Very First Impression:
Ew...

Then:
Confusion. Did I plug these in right? What's going on here...

<checks amp, checks DAC, checks connections – nothing awry>

Okay...
This can't be. The low-end sounds like a wall of mud.

Listens Further:
Hearing very subtle recording details... exquisite and impressive.

<spends the next two hours experimenting with different tracks, gain settings, polarity>

Day 1 Conclusion:
These cans, in their out-of-the-box form, sound completely unique... and that isn't necessarily a compliment.

The HE-1000s manage to dramatically re-EQ my music. While listening, eyes closed, I imagined my ears were tape heads, directly scanning the surface of each recording's multi-track master, prior to mix-down. Each instrument and vocal – save for the lower-end – was completely distinct and immensely detailed... an incredible effect to behold.

But, like an unmixed master, what I heard were not the recordings I knew. Instruments I knew as sharp or shrill were now round and mellow. Vocals, once center and emphasized, were now recessed and diminished. Each 'level' was even with every other level, and everything sounded two-dimensional. Nothing had impact; the recordings' personalities had evaporated.


I am simultaneously fascinated and disappointed. But I recognize it's early days... so, having not read the previous 20 pages, may I tap the collective wisdom of this audience and ask:

1. What's the current consensus for a break-in regiment... duration? levels? other tips?

2. How can one expect the sound to change post-break-in? Will the boomy lows tighten up?

3. What mods have been attempted thus far? Links are welcome.

4. The fit is problematic. Has anybody else tried them on backwards?

5. Thank you!

 

I've had these for a few days now, and have only got to listen to a few hrs a day, maybe total only 10 hr, so these are limited impressions.

I'm listening through the Yggdrasil or Gungnir/Wyrd which connect to the Ragnarok with interconnects provided by Monoprice Audio Systems.

For comparison I have HD-800 (no dust covers with rug liner), HE-6 (fuzzor modded, grill modded, Audeze vegan pad modded) and the Abyss (modded with foam/fuzzored).

For frame of reference my preferences and reaction to FR tends to be different than many. I don't have treble issues with HD-800, HE-6 nor with the HE1K, I listen to 97% classical (mainly late Romantic to 20th century, large orchestral with heavy brass and percussion sections), and sometimes to movie soundtracks and jazz, with OST being about the only amplified music I listen to. To me the HE-6 and HD-800 are the two best headphones I've heard, I have not heard Stax but prefer both HD-800/HE-6 over the Abyss. It should also be noted that for classical orchestral music heavy in brass I prefer the timbre of the HE-6 to the HD-800 sometimes, and I think I am in the minority for that preference.

And to be upfront, I was expecting an HD-800/HE-6 hybrid best of both worlds type of fantasy headphone, so that is not exactly a fair standard to hold these to. My hearing and preferences may also be heavily tilted towards HE-6/HD-800 and not towards a neutral speaker presentation, this must be taken into consideration. People with different tastes may and probably will completely disagree with my impressions.

I find the HE1K have good sub bass, good extension.

And that's it. They sound really nice and beautiful kind of like in an Audeze kind of way, which is not a compliment, as I feel it is too soft and masks too much. Once you hear the HD-800 you right away hear what you're missing. Once you put on the HE-6 you hear right away how soft the HE1K is. I've read people saying the HE1K is still very fast but I am not trained nor experienced well enough to hear that aspect, to me they sound much more "rounded" than the above mentioned headphones.

I switched pads to the Audeze vegans and that improved the sound quite a bit, didn't seem as soft. Having pads that push the drivers farther away and angled away from parallel is an improvement, something HFM may consider? But on a direct comparison to HE-6 I still prefer the HE-6 sound.

I have not given up on these though, I am still listening to see if I am missing the positive aspects. I haven't let them burn in yet for 100-200-600 hours, I don't believe that will change the sound considerably, but there are many who do believe that so I will give it a chance to burn in for another week and give it another listen then.

disclaimer: I am being very nitpicky and comparing to HD-800 and HE-6 strengths (which do grate on some people), which is to not say that this isn't a great TOTL flagship headphone very much worth $3000 to the right customer.

 

Got a pair in. Too early for any serious impressions, but generally agreeing with what I'm reading here.

One question though: Flick the top of the headband with your finger...TING! Run your fingernail up the grill....BBBBRING!

You guys think this may be a problems interfering with/blurring micro detail mid-treble?

I measured their FR then put a strip of electrical tape on the grill and remeasured. Saw some differences but none that looked like it was from ringing grills.

Got some odd stuff on THD+noise that could be it though.

 

From calaf:

I was not really planning to keep the HE1K because of its cost, but in the end I am 99% sure I will hold on to it. Once my brain got used to the slightly weird soundstage, I came to see the TP-modded HE1K as a more comfortable, transparent, and dynamic HE500 with a subwoofer attached to it (as money4me247 put it). I agree its toughest competitor will be a modded HE6 with the "right" (as in expensive, massive, power hungry) amp. I like the fact I can enjoy the HE1K out of any amp I own.

On a separate topic, yesterday I listened to a couple of LPs (The Wall, a mono Toscanini/NBC Eroica) using my very "romantic" TT (Denon DP300f with a Nagaoka MP100 cartridge). I was blown away by how exciting The Wall sounded, compared to the much thinner version streaming from spotify, and by how much detail there is in those LPs which are respectively 35 and 60 years old! This is the first time ever I enjoyed listening to my TT from any headphones. Anyone else tried the HE1K with a TT?