The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

Watchmen is amazing. To me personally, it is better than the Avenger movies. Storyline is a lot deeper and more engaging, instead of mindless action scenes.

Rorschach is DA man. Love the prison scene.

And Dr. Manhattan can kick Thanos' arse.

 

Watched TLJ for the second time last night: the Canto Bight scene sucks just as hard as it always did. Rose is still a poor character, But her sister was cute...and Admiral Holdo is an arrogant bitch that created needless drama through lack of communication. I dig the action, particularly the lightsaber duel. The interaction between Kylo and Rey is still the best thing about the movie. I will always be disappointed that Luke didn't go out like a G for real instead of a force-phantom. That is all.

 

Unlike a lot of people, I thought it was cool. He finally became one with the Force. Like reaching his enlightment. Yoda-level stuff.

 

Rorschach is the best so damn cool character. Shows what a willful and resilient man can achieve. Sorta reminds me of Arthur from Guy Richie.

Manhattan is kinda insteresting, but I'd say that while he's a much more interesting character than comicbook Thanos (prototype villain), mcu Thanos is at least as deep if not deeper. Power-wise, he'd obliterate Thanos without reality gem, but Thanos with all the gems has the entirety of his respective universe under his will, so yeah, that's much more than what Manhattan could handle.

 

It’s a lengthy read but I think Film Crit Hulk hits on a lot of great points about exactly why The Last Jedi was so divisive, and challenges some of the basic assumptions we make when watching movies: http://observer.com/2018/07/film-crit-hulk-the-beautiful-ugly-and-possessive-hearts-of-star-wars/

 

I disagree that a majority of folks felt TLJ was a piece of shit. I think a minority of folks felt it was and they’re being very loud about it on the internet.

 

The plural of anecdote isn’t data. The film was well received by critics, made a boatload of money, and has a ton of fans who actively love it.

And Watchmen is an amazing comic book. It’s an absolutely shit movie because Zack Snyder is an absolutely shit filmmaker who didn’t understand the material he was xeroxing onto the screen.

 

I think that an attempt to have 'interpreted' Watchmen would have been a train wreck. I'm good with the high production value 'faithful adaptation'.

I don't want Artsy intellectualism in my Super Hero movies. Give me laser swords and robots and explosions and semi-sensible plots acted out by semi-grounded characters. It's not rocket science.

 

There are a million of those brainless sci-fi/fantasy/comic book movies. Thank goodness sometimes a remarkable film like TLJ actually makes it through. It’s amazing how much crap people will put up with because it looks “cool”.

 

TLJ didn't do that. ...and there's nothing wrong with cool looking pop culture adventure movies. I'm all for intellectualism, depth, metaphor, insight, consciousness and statement... but leave that shit out of my laser sword movie, especially if trying to work all that shit into a laser sword movie leaves you with a plot that most of us here are saying was a joke, especially when that joke comes at the expense of a franchise that was dear enough to so many of us as to merit a movie like TLJ being made in the first place.

 

So that's why toys are not selling, net profit all things considered is very low, all time low score on rottentomatoes and elsewhere, solo botched, etc etc..

There is truth to what you speak, but there is actual factual data showing that majority of people didn't like it. Bluray sales is perhaps the best indicator. Compare bluray sales between tfa and tlj. Tlj is performing terribly. All of that can't be due to few loud fans on the net. And if it is, then wow, how the hell did that work, I need to learn those manipulative ultra skills

 

Actually, it is: http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2011/04/the-plural-of-anecdote-is-data-after-all.html

For those people still following this thread who do not want to read the 30k word Observer piece linked above, here’s the summary: “People who dislike TLJ are salty because it did not indulge their desire for a fantasy where they get to be badass white men with no emotional issues. The screenplay is awesome because I wrote a book on screenwriting and love the story arcs, they’re exactly what I recommend writing. Anyone who thinks the ‘tone’ of the story is ‘off’ doesn’t know what ‘tone’ means; I’m not gonna explain why, but it has something to do with your immaturity. You also probably have toxic masculinity issues, and don’t like the movie putting them down. But it’s totes okay to have a difference of opinion on all this, honest!!!”

A point-by-point rebuttal of the full argument would be an entertaining exercise if I were a film studies major working on a term paper, but alas — those days are behind me. FWIW, the piece does a decent job of presenting a holistic account of the views of TLJ apologists. I’m kind of glad I read it.

It does not address my personal biggest complaint, that the sequel trilogy story does not coherently fit in the SW universe we have seen from 1977 on, except with a dismissal that “this is the future”. The wholesale recycling of the plot and consequent discounting to zero of the preceding story also gets no mention. I guess the future means we’ll see the same old Empire come back with more planet-destroying superweapons under the control of wizened old dark siders who enjoy corrupting Skywalkers but who get betrayed by their apprentices in throne room lightsaber duels.

 

Well, this is why I’ve mostly stopped discussing this movie with people. Not much I can say when people insist “it’s shit” and repeat that over and over.