Troels Gravesen Faital 3WC-15 and Ellipticor A50-II

The mid and the tweeter are loaded in a relatively large waveguide which is in a wide baffle. Not sure how much edge diffraction is an issue

 

For what it's worth, Troels wrote that (with this Ellipcitor build) the difference between a front grill (w/frame) on or off is next to nil.

 

I’ve now had about a week with this Oliver Sayes 01a/26 DHT tube buffer. This is the most transparent tube electronics of any kind have been in my system. More transparent than the Allnic L-7000 pre I once had, while also having more flavor and being much more affordable.

It came to me with the 01a/26 switch set to 01a, so I spent a few days with a pair of 01a in it. I’m a texture whore so I was happy to hear that the buffer wasn’t smearing all the textured ‘hairs’ of stringed instruments and cilia in recorded hiss, even if transients are a bit more rounded than without the tube buffer. It’s been hard for me to enjoy tube pres and amps if they’re overly warm/soft/smeared. I guess the Noguchi Finemet OPTs help, here.

01a tubes have more color than I thought they might have. A big initial wtf moment, for me, was hearing long decay tails on familiar vocals I’d never consciously thought had much decay. Was surprised that was coming through, even if my SS Luxman came after the buffer. There was more of a departure from the sonic character I’m used to out of the Luxman than I’d expected. At the same time, sometimes that flavor made me just stop and stare at where vocals were emanating from. It’s very recording-dependent but it can be really nice.

When I flipped the switch and swapped them out for a pair of 26 globes I’d bought, I knew immediately they were more my speed. More neutral, not imparting so much vintage color, but still adding a bit of that organic creaminess. I feel like the slightly more rounded transients with the buffer sounds more natural and helps me just listen to the music instead of getting distracted by technicalities such as transient speed or air. Things you’d never comment on if listening to musicians live, in front of you.

Overall, the buffer seems to have more of an effect than I expected. Stage is expanded in all directions, it’s a touch warmer, the way tubes do dynamics differently than solid state is coming through, decays seem to play out longer. Everything is less ‘studio analytical’, more natural. Some of that DHT magic?

On the other hand, bass seems a bit more bloated and loose vs without the buffer, it doesn’t seem to be as forgiving with more compressed mixes like solid state electronics can be, and I don’t think I’ll be able to do mixes or sound design with the tube buffer in the chain because they wouldn’t translate to the way modern solid state devices do staging and dynamics. This is prob more for evenings and weekends.



As for the A50-II, the Ellipticors have really calmed down and the speakers don't seem tilted so bright anymore. Any semblance of upper mid/lower treble etch is completely gone. I got some Slagle 1-6dB attenuating autoformers made for the mid domes but I'm less anxious to get them installed ASAP, now. Only some songs make it apparent that they could use a bit of attenuation. Burn in seemed extra real with this speaker build.

 

Welp, got some 01a globes to try and it looks like this circuit is happier with 01a than 26. In this buffer, 26 is really nice but it’s a bit too gentle and laidback for me. Getting some good 01a tubes in there brings back that snap and macro dynamics I’m used to without tubes in the chain, though with a touch of that 01a patina/euphony.

I’m still impressed with how little is lost through this buffer. A bit of flavor without giving up transparency like w/Freya.



Edit - 3 weeks later



I couldn’t stop thinking about how I initially preferred the more neutral (with a touch of creaminess) character of the type 26 DHT vs 01a, so I picked up a pair of better measuring 26 ST tubes and tried a few things to see if I could make it work.

The buffer comes with both 0dB and +6dB outs and I hadn’t thought to try +6dB because I didn’t need the extra gain. I should have done this earlier because it kind of woke up the buffer’s type 26 mode and brought back the slam I thought I was missing. I’m happy because now I feel like I can use the tube type I prefer without obvious compromises.

 

Epic pics! Wonderful!

 

Hi AdvanTech, did you get the Slagle attenutator installed on the ScanSpeak dome mid? What's the result?

Have you formed a definite opinion on this Ellipticor project?

Thank you!

 

It's going in in a week and a half. I won't need much attenuation now that the mid domes have burned in so it's not going to drastically change the presentation. It's just for fine-tuning a couple dB.

I've more or less said this in previous posts but these Ellipticor drivers really are impressive in their own ways. Great articulation (at any point in the frequency range), low-level detail retrieval, quick transients. Wrt the mid domes: great immediacy and spatial resolution. The 8" mids in my old 3WC-15 build didn't image this precisely.

I'm also a fan of using hypex plate amps to power the 15" woofers with conviction so a lower-wattage power amp can handle the rest of the range. Low-end impact and textures are improved vs my previous fully passive speakers.

These are speakers worth building a chain around, for sure, as long as you're looking for the type of presentation a speaker of this type (multi-way with a big woofer and rectangular cabinet) offers. This is different from a full-range driver w/out a crossover, different from a big ultra-efficient 5-way horn system w/field coil drivers, large electrostatic panel system, etc.

 

Hello,

Have you the 3D plan for this cabinet ?

 

My builder does. If you'd like, PM me for his contact info.

 

Hello,
Asking how your enjoying your speakers? I thought I read that the bass was a little shy and wanted to check if your still happy with them. I have been playing with the idea of building the 3w-15 or 3w-12 and would appreciate any new comments, suggestions that you might have.
best,
Josh

 

Sorry, are you asking about A50-II or 3WC-15?

 

the 3wc-15 sorry did not remember you had both
best,
josh

 

The 15s on the 3WC-15 seemed more about agility/texture/musicality than subwoofer-like boom and low end extension so it could potentially sound too bass-light if placed far enough from a wall that you don't get much boundary reinforcement. Something to note is that I only had 30 watts powering the full range. They have the binding posts for bi-amping so you could probably get more low-end presence by sending big (class AB or D) wattage to only the 15s.

If I could describe the speaker I'd say the 8" 18sound mid woofers are the stars. The trade-off between those mids and smaller ones would be a weightier full sounding midrange vs something smaller with wider dispersion that doesn't have so much roll-off as you get more off-axis.

The two tweeter options are personal. If you don't think Beryllium is fatiguing they are impressive at what they do. The soft domes are more forgiving and comparatively relaxed in nature, though a bit less resolving of details/spatial information.

If you can swing it, why not build the bigger and more efficient 3WC-15!

 

thanks for the assessment, Im still in the deciding stage. I had Troels purifi monitor he built and it was very nice. I would like a 3 way. Im not sure if the bass would satisfy me even with the 15, Im not a bass head and I like slam when the music has it.
thanks again for sharing your experience
best
josh

 

If you bi-amp you could also amplify the 15s with a higher gain, though that's a bit of a crude way to tune to your liking. Pretty easy to do with something like the Hypex plate amps in my A50-II (FA501). I'm pretty impressed with their performance.

 

I have to say the A50II looks like its a fantastic speaker in passive or with the hypex bass amp. Its a beauty. Do you still have your 3wc-15? If you do are you selling it, im sure its out of my price range and wanted to ask.
best,
Josh

 

Saw the illuminator on USAM : https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...ore-buying-some-megabuck-commercial-speakers/

A lot of speaker for the price asked.

I suspect it needs a large space to breath too.

.. dB

 

I sold it to a close friend of mine and recently helped dial it in for his space.

 

I picked up a used Direcstream mkII modified with APS 80% Nickel output transformers and some audiophile (foolery?) fuse since some friends were talking so highly about the DAC and I wanted to hear for myself. I know these DACs from PS Audio weren't thought of very highly in my circles but apparently the new firmwares have really elevated them. Maybe these impressions vs a Rockna Wavedream Signature might help someone out.

My first impression was that it was quite smooth and maybe not as resolving as a WD Signature, though I had to admit the timbre seemed less hi-fi and more natural/realistic vs WD Sig. In the beginning (and before I swapped from the smeary power cable I'd originally plugged into the DS mkII) I thought I preferred the WD Sig for the little bit more bite, textures/grit, and dynamism it had.

A friend of mine came over and we listened to a handful of tracks, going back and forth between DACs. It was initially a blind comparison for him but he figured out which was the Rockna real quick (the more hi-fi/show-off sounding one). He liked a LOT about the DS mk2. Low-end is much better defined/detailed, timbre is spot on in a way that your imagination can easily get lost in the instruments/vocals, and he thinks the spatial stuff is much better (maybe this is what DSD does so well?).

It turned out that the random 'audiophile' power cable I was using was doing some serious smearing, especially to the mids, and using some no-name black printer cable-looking one immediately brought more texture and spatial information back to the table. We then swapped from the ($300 lol) fuse to the stock one and that seemed to be where the overly dull character was coming from. Background elements to songs became easier to follow like you'd expect from the WD Sig. The presentation of resolution is still different from the WD but it does seem competitive. Especially as audio memory of WD Sig fades with each song and you acclimate to the DS mk2. I think using both an unfucked power cable and fuse helped a lot. The DS mk2 was now cooking with gas.

After dialing in the DS mk2 we A/B'd it against the WD Sig.

• The WD seems more showy in a hi-fi way, whereas the DS mk2 is more natural, nuanced, and realistic
• The WD's still the more dynamic DAC of the two, and that's an engaging quality.
• But, at the same time, the WD presents instruments and voices in a flatter and less emotionally engaging way whereas the DS mk2 sounds more multi-dimensional. The WD’s overall presentation can be a little distracting in that your focus might be drawn to how it's presenting music instead of the music itself when directly A/B’ing.
• Instruments on the WD sound a bit more disjointed whereas everything sounds more coherent on the DS mk2. I’m not yet sure if this is purely a positive or if there’s homogenizing going on. Something sounds just a touch "off" on the WD when switching back and forth.
• Decay is much better on the DS mk2. I could follow reverb tails longer than I ever did with the WD
• Texture isn't as emphasized as on the WD but there seems to be plenty for me to absorb on the DS mk2, especially once audio memory of the WD fades away.
• Low end is spectacular on the DS mk2 vs WD. Solid and tight. There is definition and articulation in bass lines and kicks that I didn't know existed until I got the DS mk2 in.

The longer I've had this modded DS mk2, the longer I think that it migh actually be more resolving than the WD Sig without overemphasizing detail in a look-at-me kind of way. Every once in awhile I'm noticing little things about songs that I've been very familiar with for years that I hadn't noticed before. It might still be a touch too smooth for my tastes (my preferences lean more toward a studio sound instead of something overly rosy) but it's become clear that it's the DAC that's going to stay.

 

Good morning,
I come to discuss the Faital 15 with you because like others here I find harshness in the treble with BE tweeters.
I read the thread, I'm using a translator because I speak English badly.
I think the problem is amplified by my large room which I need to improve and perhaps also the association with my Accuphase E5000 amplifier.
I have read the various avenues listed here, and perhaps others have since encountered the problem and will express their opinion.
Has no one tried to put felt on the front to limit diffraction?
@Adventech, you changed the tweeters (another investment), and finally did you change C1 or did you keep the crossover as is? Were you completely satisfied with the treble until you changed speakers?
I listen to all opinions, I would like to be completely happy with these speakers which have great potential.
Have a good day.
Xavier