Valhalla 2 with HD650 -> where to from here

You mean he played with caps ... Blurred out on the HF pix.

I don't doubt it's good sounding (i.e., better than Valhalla 2 or Crack) though looking at the design having listened to similar OTL stuff using the same tubes . $650 + shipping would be a great price.

 

I'm pretty sure blurring out your pics will entirely, absolutely stop anyone and everyone from figuring out what you did, even if they buy their own unit and pop it open for a look. Just like scratching off the tops of the DAC chips in the "Gen 1" Metrum DACs stopped people from figuring out what chips he used.

Oh wait...

Anyway, the $650 price point is what interests me and why I'm really curious to get a deep dive list of subjective comparisons between the Elise and other tube amps under several hundred bucks. If it was, you know, $1K, of course I'd expect (rather, hope) it to sound better, but $650 is in the ballpark of a modded Crack + Speedball. I'm intrigued.

 

I would still like some specific comparisons on how it's better...not just "better" and expressions like "kid's toy." Not that I doubt you, but it really doesn't help me imagine how they'd sound relative to one another.

 

Perhaps you didn't read the part about me saying that the 6AS7/6080 based Elise is in all likelihood a better amp than the Vahalla 2. FWIW, there isn't really that many different ways you can make a single-ended 6080 OTL amp. The circuit is pretty much going to look the same. The Vahalla is a totally different topology and not comparable.

Craig and I have been toying around with a 6080 output tube type amp (considering OTL, but tending toward transformer coupled) which can be sold for cheap as an entry level tube amp, but not Polish cheap. The only thing we haven't decided is what driver tube considering the low gain of the 6080. So when I say I have a pretty damn good idea how good that Elise amp is going to sound, I do.

Finally, I would hope that every dude who designs an amp goes through several different designs, refines them, and auditions them at length. I don't know if you realize that Lucasz isn't special in that regard. We have more aborted designs in the lab than most people ever realize.

 

I never demeaned his work, in fact I agreed with your assessment. However I do think it's fishy when one person posts the innards of the amp and strategically blurs out component labels while another person extols the virtues of how the designer is special in regards to special efforts involved in the development of gear. My shill detector alarm is starting to beep louder.

Finally, what other similar single-ended OTL amps have you heard that used the 6080 and 6SN7 (or similar type driver tube)? I ask this since you claim to have heard other similar designs, but they did not sound awesome like the Elise. And BTW, the output cap in a OTL design can make or break it in terms of sound quality.

 

Look, if you care so much about the Elise, why don't you send it to one of us so we can compare it to one of our usual well-known references (Valhalla 2, Ember, Zana Deux, etc.) instead of arguing. This is what we did at Changstar and this is what we do here.

Ship the damn thing to @Hands, or even to @thegunner100 (who is in NY). I'll get TheAlchemist to ship his Valhalla 2 and I'll ship my ZDS.

 

I already talked about what I didn't care for on the Valhalla 2. Relatively neutral and fast, but a bit dry and rough sounding and lacking in slam and macro dynamics for my tastes. I like my modded Crack + Speedball because it is more lively, hits harder, and is smoother/more liquid to me. It is not quite as fast or neutral, but still fine for me. The stage size is smaller and more in-your-face than the Valhalla 2, but that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make and overall enjoy the Crack more for my tastes.

That's the sort of relative comparison I'm hoping you can give. Throwing out some amp I've never heard doesn't help. You said you've owned or heard some of the same amps I have, and that's what I'm curious about. And your relative comparison attempt was just a lengthier way of saying "moar betterer." "Better vs boombox." What? Tone, liquidity, stage size, speed, resolution, macro and micro dynamics, etc. Whatever you want to label that as, those are the relative, comparative descriptors that actually help readers.

Not trying to argue or doubt you. Trying to pick your brain for everyone's benefit.

 

I don't disagree with you. I know that quite a few people who had Valhalla 1 and upgraded to the Vahalla 2 were sort of rudely awakened by its neutralish almost non-tubey sound. And yeah, the Valhalla 2 doesn't quite have the slam of the Crack or other SE tube amps.

Did you try Amperex of 7308 tubes?

Whoa, you took this the wrong way. The "playing with caps" comment was a dead serious one, especially when comes to OTL amps. That was the essence of the recent Zana Deux Super tweaks plus a few other things such as reducing feedback, bypassing a few electrolytic caps with film, etc.

I guess I need to learn marketing a bit more. Instead of "we tweaked a few things" I should have said: "In developing the EC Zana Deux Super, Eddie Current went through several different designs, refined them, auditioned them at length, and then released the amplifier."

 

Time Out. We're going in circles. Please see this: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...d650-where-to-from-here.496/page-2#post-12493

Sending gear back and forth across the country to get the bottom of things was a time honored tradition at Changstar and is also one here.

@Shaffer: I don't disagree with your assessments that Crack and Valhalla 2 are mediocre tube amps in the overall scheme of things; but I do feel that they provide immense value and are a great way to get into tube gear.