Valhalla 2 with HD650 -> where to from here

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by PerfectAnalog, Nov 8, 2015.

  1. PerfectAnalog

    PerfectAnalog Acquaintance

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    I currently am using a Schiit Valhalla 2 AMP (stock tubes) with HD650's with a Bifrost Multibit.

    I don't get the feeling that moving to a LYR 2 is really an upgrade if I'm going to stick with the HD650's (HD800S are likely next once they've been out and scrubbed for a while.... Years maybe)

    What AMP's should I consider as upgrades? Price range would be $600 or less. I'm not married to tube amps. I like classical music and vocal driven mainstream music.
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Lyr 2 paired with HD650 is interesting. I liked the combo. It was warm, slightly thick, and more dynamic sounding to my ears that Valhalla 2 (based on quick, RMAF listening conditions). But others may not like it for that reason. The Valhalla 2 is probably the more incisive, faster amp and is more neutral. But I found something about the Valhalla 2 to be a bit dry sounding regardless of tubes, which wore on me.

    So, I moved to an upgraded/modded Bottlehead Crack. Very lively, dynamic, and more tubey and liquid to my ears. However, it does sacrifice in stage size, primarily in width, and air. I am still rolling tubes to be sure. (Well, once repairs are completed).

    What do you like and dislike about the Valhalla 2? What are you looking to get out of a new tube amp?
     
  3. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I have heard good things about the bottlehead crack and HD650 combo. Personally, I really like the Valhalla 2 with the Amperex Orange Globes tubes. I agree with Hands, the Valhalla 2 is a bit neutral with stock tubes, the orange globes add some warmth, still not as warm as the original Valhalla 1, which was very warm by nature. Maybe you can get a loaner Valhalla 1 o find one cheap for sale if you like a warmer tube amp. The Valhalla 1 was very warm and I really enjoy it, even with the stock tubes.

    Also, I would really consider Hands advice on amps and the HD650 - he knows what he is talking about.

    P.S. Have you done any mods to your HD650's? You can try the quarter mod and dynamat mods, you may like the sound of the HD650's better.
     
  4. JoelT

    JoelT Friend

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    IMO for $600, you're really looking at sidegrades to the Valhalla 2, not upgrades. I would be very careful not to waste money. As Hands said, the BH Crack with speedball is an option if you want a more "tubey" presentation, but I don't feel it's any better in terms of technicalities. The Val2 is actually very good for the price. Personally, I would save up more money if you're looking for a true upgrade.
     
  5. PerfectAnalog

    PerfectAnalog Acquaintance

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    I'm looking for something a bit warmer, which is not what I expect the Lyr 2 to be. Perhaps simply trying some other tubes is a low cost way for an improvement. I see some Amperex Oranges on ebay.

    I haven't modded my HD650's.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I was going to say Amperex. If you want warmer, don't mod the HD650s.
     
  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Amperex OG is good for extra warmth if you don't want to take it too far. I did find the Lyr 2 even warmer still with the HD650.
     
  8. velvetx

    velvetx Gear Master West/Vendor Spotlight Moderator

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    Not just any Amperex Orange Globes but the ones made in Herleen, Holland.
     
  9. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    Agreed. That's the ones I use, the Amperex Orange Globes Holland matched pair - I believe 1962
     
  10. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    If you really like the clear and resolving tube amp sound, then the clear upgrade from the valhalla 2 would be an Eddie Current amp. Save up some money for a Black Widow or a used S7 or ZD.
     
  11. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I would love an Eddie Current but alas, not enough funds to afford one
     
  12. FlySweep

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    The ECP Torpedo III might be a potential amp to consider. It's DIY and was just released.. but there are a number of SBAF's who've already ordered one so we should get impressions soon. Doug's designs have always been well respected by many trusted ears, including pyrates/SBAF. Like EC, Schiit, and DNA tube amps, ECP tube amps have been touted for their "tubes done right" SQ (no syrupy, slow, soft, rolled off, muddy sound here).

    Price wise, it's right between the V2 & BW (~$720) and would probably be under $900 if you commissioned someone to build it for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  13. PerfectAnalog

    PerfectAnalog Acquaintance

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    Is there a consensus about trustworthy places to get tubes? There are lots on eBay, though I'm not sure that's the best spot.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ebay is good if you know what you are doing (know the design of the plates vs. brand names), know who the good sellers are, and are willing to take into account that 30%+ of tubes are going to go bad in 30 days.

    Otherwise, Upscale Audio for 6922 / 6DJ8 / 7308 / PCC88 types.
     
  15. Shaffer

    Shaffer Acquaintance

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    I'd suggest taking a look at a Feliks Elise. Sonically, it's in a whole other league compared to the Lyr and the Valhala; I've had both Schiits in my system. The Elise is like walking into a different universe. Obviously, I'm not being literal, but I'm not exaggerating either. I've been involved with audio on a fairly serious level for ~30 years. There's been a handful of components over time that redefined what is possible, sound-wise, for me. From the lowly Boston Acoustics A40 I had in college to an Ayre K-1 preamp to Dunlavy SC-IV loudspeakers to the original Lyra Clavis DC cartridge. The Elise is one of those components. Its performance envelope is best compared to modern ARC amplifiers than the compromised equipment aimed at the budget headphone sector of the market. Good luck.
     
  16. FlySweep

    FlySweep Friend

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    Yep.. the Feliks amp looks sweet and definitely one I'd consider, as well.. I haven't heard it, but the Force is telling me it's quite special. Wish we knew a little more about the design, though..
     
  17. Shaffer

    Shaffer Acquaintance

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    Sure, I agree, it would be very interesting.

    Lucasz Feliks, the designer, spent over 6 months voicing the circuit and doesn't want to tell anyone what he did. In some ways one can't really blame him. I've opened the amp and looked around, but it's not as if I'm Glenn who actually knows what he's seeing. I can say, however, that the build quality is very good with a lot of attention to detail.
     
  18. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    When you say against the Lyr and Valhalla, is that the 1st or 2nd gen Schiit amps? Have you heard that specific amp against other tube HP amps?
     
  19. Shaffer

    Shaffer Acquaintance

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    Both Schiit amps were gen2. If I understand the second question correctly, ATM I own 3 tube HP amplifiers, down from 5.
     
  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Can you offer specifics on how the Elise compares to the Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2, along with any other tube amps you've owned or heard? In what ways is it better than those, exactly, and in detail? I've owned the Valhalla 2, currently own a modded Crack + SB and SinglePower MPX3, and heard a Lyr 2. Heard a few other tube amps at meets. I'm very curious what you think those amps do well as-is, what you think they could do better, and how the amps differ (better or worse) in pretty much any way you could think to compare them.

    I only ask because "better" for someone could mean "worse" for someone else. It's like when someone says, "Yeah, that [insert headphone, amp, DAC, tube, cable, etc] is so much better!" And when you try it, it just sounds like a horrible, ugly, etched, nasty mess...because that person's "better" is way different than your "better." I'm all about deep, detailed relative differences so I can get a proper frame of reference.

    For example, I read one Elise vs. Crack comparison that was basically just, "The Crack is like looking at a picture. The Elise is like being in the picture with three dimensions!" Or something like that...that wasn't verbatim. Stuff like that doesn't really help me understand how they really compare. :)

    Thanks!
     

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